Cleaning a precision rifle barrel

[Willie Lowman]

I bought a nice used Remington 700 D.D. Ross rifle. When I arrived home after shooting it for the first time I couldn't believe all the copper fouling in it. It took several careful hours to get it all out. I told the previous owner I couldn't believe how fowled he let that rifle get he told me that "You aren't supposed to ever clean the barrel of a precision rifle."

Wait, what?

I used to have a Romanian AK that I never cleaned but I had never heard of not cleaning a high quality barrel.

Is there something I wasn't told about?

 

[AllenJ]

Not cleaing a precision rifle barrel would be news to me. When researching custom barrels I noticed most had cleaning instructions so I would think your friend is confused.

 

[Revoltella]

He may be referring to using a bore brush as infrequently as possible. At least a bronze one. Just use cleaning solution with patches and a jag.

 

[Bart B.]

A lot of the most accurate centerfire rifles I know of are regularly cleaned by first running a dry bronze brush back and forth in the stainless barrel, then wet swabbed with Shooters Choice, Sweets 7.62 or other good stuff then brushed again and again. Finally a couple of dry patches to take out what's left over. The rod was a bare stainless steel one.

All the Garand barrels I wore out had the last 3/4" of bore and groove surfaces worn away by the solid steel rod used to clean them with. No copper wash whatsoever in that area; it stopped back aways. Proof to me the cleaning rod had worn the barrel steel to diameters larger than the bullet had back where the wash stopped. That was after about 4000 to 5000 rounds through them but at that point in bore wear at the muzzle, they all still shot no worse than about 4 to 5 inches at 600 yards.

 

[Sierra280]

Benchrest competitors clean their barrels ever 10 round or so, a dirty bore can hurt accuracy (so can the oil/cleaner left behind in a clean one-finish with a dry patch, i always take a fouling shot before shooting for group) and ALWAYS use a bore guide.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Yes, but after a barrel is cleaned the POI shifts from what a typical zero is. I always zero on a fouled barrel. My precision gun has about 400 rounds since its last cleaning... When I took it out of the box.

 

[Hummer70]

If you don't want to clean your barrel I hope you have big bucks to replace it.

http://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleaning/63278.htm

 

[603Country]

As to the statement that POI changes after a barrel cleaning, that isn't necessarily so. Depends on the rifle. That said, I most always have a lightly fouled barrel when it's time to shoot (hunting or punching paper).

 

[allaroundhunter]

As to the statement that POI changes after a barrel cleaning, that isn't necessarily so. Depends on the rifle. That said, I most always have a lightly fouled barrel when it's time to shoot (hunting or punching paper).

Very few rifles don't see a shift from a clean to a fouled barrel.

And even if it is a small deviation at 100 yards, when we are talking precision rifles, I am thinking shots out past 800 yards. What was a small deviation at 100 yards is a miss at 800+.

 

[stubbicatt]

For years there have been two camps: the clean bore shooters, and the dirty bore shooters. Each can tell us why his choice is best, and that's fine. I choose to clean my rifles after they are shot. At least enough to get a white patch using a quality solvent.

I do not have a bore scope and cannot comment on the level of fouling which actually resides in my rifle bores...

To OP: If the fouling has accumulated to the levels you describe, that will almost certainly adversely affect accuracy.

 

[Willie Lowman]

I noticed most had cleaning instructions so I would think your friend is confused.

I would say so. He probably heard something about three piece cleaning rods damaging barrels or something about hitting the crown and thought it was better to not clean a barrel.

 

[Bart B.]

Having worn out several 30 caliber barrels made by Hart, Obermeyer and Kreiger, none of them showed any difference in accuracy starting out clean with the first shot or fouled with a few dozen shots.

Friend of mine shot three 80-shot matches in a row with his rifle and never cleaned the barrel. He won two of them and placed second in one.

Sierra Bullets' tests their HPMK's shooting 10 at a time during production runs. They shoot 1/4 MOA at 200 yards for dozens of 10-shot groups without cleaning the rail gun's barrel.

There are barrels with rough enough bore surfaces that need a few shots fired so bullet jacket material fills the micro pits so later fired bullets are better balanced with minimal jacket material scraped off. Most commercial factory barrels, for example. Aftermarket custom hand-lapped match grade barrels don't do that.

 

[old roper]

Prior to hunting season I check zero and rifle isn't cleaned till season end. If it's one of D.D. Ross rebarrel job I'd be little concern till I shot rifle.

 

[Willie Lowman]

I've shot the rifle. After I cleaned and cleaned with Sweet's 7.62 copper solvent and some Gunzilla.

It likes 168 grain Federal Gold Medal and not much else. With that ammo I can get 3/4" groups at 100 yards and it gets boring hitting the 8" plate at 300 yards. I haven't shot paper at more than 100 yards yet.

If it's one of D.D. Ross rebarrel job I'd be little concern till I shot rifle.

Why do you say that? I read some posts on snipershide forums and people seemed to love or hate D.D. Ross but I haven't found out why. Is his work hit or miss?

 

[rduckwor]

I clean about every 250-300 rounds or sooner if accuracy falls off. When I clean, I do the absolute minimum to achieve the purpose. I never use a bronze brush, only nylon and patches and I use a good coated rod and bore guide. In my mind, cleaning is more damaging than shooting, but, it IS necessary.

I run nitro solvent and a bore snake thru the warm barrel at the range between cleanings.

 

[Bart B.]

If cleaning is more damaging than shooting, why is that?

 

[old roper]

Willie Lowman, D.D. Ross does a complete accuracy job which include replacing barrel and another package were he doesn't and big difference in price.

My comment was more to do with buying used rifle and had all that work done be a shame if it didn't shoot and had nothing to do with D.D. Ross work.

 

[Metal god]

There are barrels with rough enough bore surfaces that need a few shots fired so bullet jacket material fills the micro pits so later fired bullets are better balanced with minimal jacket material scraped off. Most commercial factory barrels, for example.

This is what I understand the issue to be . I've also heard of the copper equilibrium theory . Which is a point where you are removing as much fouling as you are leaving in the barrel .This does not last for ever and all rifles and calibers are different . Lets just say from shots 40 through 400 the rifle will be in it's zone of copper equilibrium . This is when you want to do all your doping for the rifle . The theory is you rifle will be shooting it's most consistent from shot to shot in that zone . That's the theory anyway . I'm trying it out with one of my rifles . I'm about 100 rounds into the test and anticipate this to take quite a while to see if it's true . My plan is to shoot 500 rounds or so with out cleaning and see if POI shifts from outing to outing . That should be about 6 or 7 trips to the range . I will then clean the bore and all the copper out . The next test will be to shoot 500 rounds cleaning every 50 rounds and see if my POI shifts from shot 1 to 50 back to shot 1 again all the way through 500 rounds . It will be a lot of work and note taking but could be fun at the same time

If cleaning is more damaging than shooting, why is that?

I laugh every time I here guys say cleaning the rifle will cause more damage then shooting it . When called on it the say If you don't clean it right or use the wrong tools you can damage the bore . Really ? Is that kinda like anything else in life ? If you use the wrong tool for the job or do it the wrong way you can screw things up (DUH). I guess one should never hammer nails in because you will damage your fingers or hands .