Civil War and FDR

[Kaylee]

so here's a question..

I'm kinda rusty on the 1900-1940 era of our history, but from what I've been led to understand, there was a palpable chance of our very own Bolshevik Rebellion in the US, especially during the Depression.

The "conventional wisdom" I was told was that FDR forestalled this rebellion by essentially caving on a bunch of little things -- making a whole bunch of "we're here to help" Alphabet Agencies instead of going down to a full-scale socialist revolution... hence the slow adoption of Socialist Party principles in first one, then both of the major party platforms.

So.. two questions..

1 -- how much of this conventional wisdom is true, and how much is hyperbole?

2 -- if it IS true... what are the implications for the modern Patriot types -- particularly in the sense of getting "leave us the heck alone" principles back into the mainstream thinking?

-K

.... feeling more like a philisophical dinosaur everyday....

 

[MuzzleBlast]

At the risk of sounding like Spock...

Fascinating!

Here's my take on your second question. I honestly think we are beginning to see a very slow turnaround. 9/11 showed everyone that relying on the government for personal safety is folly. The Enron debacle showed everyone that depending on an employer for financial security is folly. About half or more of Americans support privatizing at least part of Socialism Security, and most don't really believe it will still exist twenty years from now. The 2000 election showed that as a nation, the 50% of us who are above average have had our fill of elitist, "it ain't illegal if you aren't caught", "no controlling legal authority" politicians, and have the same political power as all those big-city blissninnies. The lawsuits are failing one by one. The blatant bias of the news media has been exposed for all to see. Handgun Control Inc. has had to change their name to "spin" their agenda. The Attorney General of the US and a high federal judge have recognized RKBA as an individual right.

In short, silly outdated ideas like Common Sense, Responsibility and Individual Rights are SLOWLY beginning to be resurrected.

 

[glock glockler]

Kaylee,

Much of the Bolshevik sympathies stemmed from the Great Depression as well as the 'grass is always greener" sentiment. The latter would not dissipate until the empirical data of Socialisms flawed nature emerged, and many cling to it still, even after admitting it doesnt work. I am reminded of DeTouqville* (sp) summing it up: 'If people cannot have equality of freedom, they want equality of slavery'

But the Former, OTOH, was worsened by Roosevelt's socialist policies. Consider that the recession/depression of 1921 was relatively short and the economy soon rebounded, but the 1930's depression lasted quite a while. I find it ironic that a man, who used federal money to pay farmers not to produce food while many in the country were starving is, so revered by scholars and even some high office politicians. These myths about Roosevelt have become so imbedded that it is almost a sacrelige to question them (as are those about the War for Southern independence).

I believe he used whatever popular sentiment that supported Socialism to further his own power grab, not to save us from a Bolshevik revolution.

How do we get back to the Republic that the founders started? We can start by educating ourselves and begin questioning the accepted myths. Walter Williams recently gave high marks and agreed with a new book called "The Real Lincoln", which validates and supports the Southern right to secession. Imagine that, a Black man sideing with the Confederacy.

Tear the myths down and work like hell to get Pro-Freedom people in office, November is closer than you think, get out there.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I truly hope that we won't see a repeat of the many WW2-era idiocies (though Carter did his best to re-vive price controls and the attendant shortages and long lines for commodities). The more I study the US history, the more I am convinced that we are doing relatively well now: the US govt. certainly got away with a great deal of controlling behavior in the past, seemingly with less opposition than they are encountering now. Then again, maybe we are going the Chinese way...relatively free economy, suppressed political freedom...hope not.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The concept of a "Bolshevik Revolution" in the United States during the depression is, essentially, crapola.

Yes, the Communist Party got its greatest support during the depression, but that support was, at best, extremely thin.

Much of the scare-mongering was simply a hold-over from the fears lashed up by people like Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer in the late teens and early 1920s.

There was a credible threat, but it was a small threat, and it was a threat generally not from Communists, but anarchists.

Palmer became convinced that there was an active, wide-spread plot to overthrow the United States, and began surrounding himself with driven, paranoid men, including one J. Edgar Hoover.

Many have claimed that the Palmer raids were simply Palmer's attempt to obtain the presidential nomination for himself, even though thousans of people were arrested and held without evidence and without charges being filed.

The prosperity of the 1920s helped drive thoughts of Communist activities into the background, helped in large part by the fact that Russia was pretty much isolated from the rest of the world.

In the 1930s, though, with the advent of the depression and the emergence of the Soviet Union as an industrial power in its own right (along with a LOT of window dressing about how great things were in Russia. They were, if you liked purges and starvation), the spectre of Communism again reared its ugly head.

Roosevelt didn't really "cave in." After his illness that resulted in the loss of the use of his legs, Roosevelt underwent something of a "spiritual conversion," which more than just a few people noticed.

From Frances Perkins, who would become Roosevelt's Secretary of Labor -- ""Roosevelt underwent a spiritual transformation during the years of his illness. I noticed when he came back that the years of pain and suffering had purged the slightly arrogant attitude he had displayed on occasion before he was stricken. The man emerged completely warmhearted, with humility of spirit and with a deeper philosophy. Having been to the depths of trouble, he understood the problems of people in trouble."

He became more concerned about the social welfare of individuals instead of just protecting his own social and economic standing.

As governor of New York during the depression, Roosevelt enacted several programs that would form the core of his later social programs, some of which were actually proposed BEFORE Roosevelt was president, and which were vetoed by Herbert Hoover.

Sorry, but I don't accept the theory that Roosevelt passed these reforms simply to placate and defuse a Communist rebellion. There's simply no credible evidence that such a plot was ever hatched, planned, or attempted.

Roosevelt acted, in large part, out of his desire to get the nation moving again. Some of his programs may have caused movement just for movement's sake, but it was the perception of movement that was needed at the time.

 

[Correia]

I remember my Grandpa making fun of the WPA. (Works Project Administration or We Poke Along in his terms). He hated Roosevelt.

If there had been a communist revolution in the 1930s, there would have been a lot of dead communists, real quick.

 

[BigG]

I agree with what's been said so far but particularly want to underscore what Correia's grandpappy knew then and what I know now:

My opinion is that Roosevelt was a (rodent, tyrant (pick one)) who wanted to be king like Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Stalin did. He prolly would have succeeded had he not died. I just hope the reverence that FDR is currently held in is seen by future generations for the self righteous pap it truly is.

Secondly, even if FDR had a change of heart after his illness as Mike said, we in the USA have been more often hurt by do-gooders like Jimmy Carter than more draconian leaders like Herbert Hoover. God save us from do-gooders!!