Chinese MBT&guns

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Shin-Tao

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The new production PLA MBT, the Type-98, is a serious threat.
This tank is now equiped with an active counter missile defense system utilising a high powered laser linked to a LWR (laser warning receiver). This system detects enemy ranging and painting lasers, tracks the source, targets the outputting optics, and destroys the offending rig with a high-output pulse.

This system is mounted on the turret roof of the Type-98 and looks like an automatic GL. It has a high elevation mounting and free traverse, indicating an ability to engage systems on oposing helicopters as well as tanks and other ground threats. The sytem can and will likely be, retrofitted to other front-line MBTs in the PLA's main divisions.

A modern Western MBT such as the Abrams, while trying to engage a Chinese MBT could find itself suddenly deprived of it's ranging laser and unable to properly lay it's main gun.

This, coupled with the 98's new laminate armor, FSDSDU ammunition and high mobility make the new MBT a much greater threat than previously projected. Consider also the Pentagon's anti-clever move to abondon heavy armor and adopt a very expensive and not-to-capable LAV.

It is posible that the 98 will also be equiped with a system roughly emulating the Russain Drozd counter-missile device. The Drozd physicaly destroys incomming missiles instead of attacking the source targeting gear. No Drozd device have been seen on the 98, but the laser systems are already in place.

This is all a far cry from the entrenched image of a peasant army equiped with poor clones of Soviet equipment.

The Chinese Infantry, now armed with a unique 6mm bullpup-config rifle have also been seen training with a "LandWarrior-esqe" squad integration communitcation system. Componants of this equipment are monted on the helmet, rifle and backpack. A GPS is known to be included.
 

buzz_knox

New member
For every countermeasure, there is a counter-countermeasure. I'd say that the boys (and girls) at DARPA and the electronics firms have gotten these same reports. Just remember that despite our open press, not everything makes it into the press reports.

As for the rifles, the ChiComs can have all the bullpups they want. I actually think that one is a step down from an AK-74 or especially the new Russian AN-94. Bullpups aren't known for being as reliable.

But your ultimate point is well made. The PLA is not the paper tiger we've always heard that it is. They have made unbelievable strides in improving their capabilities, in preparation for the war they believe is inevitable (and desired) between the US and its allies and China.
 

moa

New member
Besides the weapons you mentioned, the Red Chinese are deploying mobile ICBMs. They are also building a true blue water navy that can project power and not just be a glorified coast guard.

I think there is little doubt the Chinese plan on war with the USA sometime in the future. It may be over Taiwan.

Also, do not discount a large and capable Chinese fifth column of spies and saboturers in the USA. They have had plenty of time to install them, taking advantage of our liberal and assine immigration policies.

At home, they are cracking down real hard on Christians and others. They recently condemned three of them to death for spreading Christianity. There of reports of Christians tortured to death in an effort to force false confessions and accusations.

At least in most Islamic countries and Israel, they only imprison people for spreading Christianity.

This Chinese thing does not look good. They mean to challenge the USA and the Western world.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Iraqi Republican Guard T-72 variants were frequently fitted with earlier Chinese-made anti-laser devices and "dazzlers" for blinding the guidance sytem of TOW missiles.

Didn't seem to work too well during Desert Dust.

The race has been going on since Zog wrapped himself in treebark so that Og's rocks wouldn't hurt him so much.
 

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
I'm pretty sure that M1 gunners are pretty good with just bore sighting. I'm not worried about that.
I'm just worried that we will not have enough M1's on the field.
Putting fancy LAV IIIs on the field against China's new tank? That is a very bad idea. Next thing you know, we'll be fielding the SCUTR:
scutr.jpg
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
At least in most Islamic countries and Israel, they only imprison people for spreading Christianity

Better warn Teen Missions International. They've been sending kids to these places every summer for decades now.

Israel putting Christians in jail, my butt... :rolleyes: That'd kinda kill the Christmas tourist trade, don't ya think?
 
A number of years back I watched a documentary on China. At that time they could mount a 100 million man army. Granted that included some old folks in their equivalent of the inactive reserves but those types can sure handle the support services releasing younger men for first line combat units. A US heavy division has about 25 to 28 thousand troops, divide 100 million by that figure. That's a whole lot of divisions.
 

T.Stahl

New member
"I thought at the time that they were T-55 tanks, because we were destroying them so quickly."
Cpt. H.R. McMaster, US Army, about knocking out Iraqi T-72s
I can't imagine Chinese tanks are that much better. But never forget they have Sun Tzu on their side.
 

D.W. Drang

New member
A number of years back I watched a documentary on China. At that time they could mount a 100 million man army. Granted that included some old folks in their equivalent of the inactive reserves but those types can sure handle the support services releasing younger men for first line combat units. A US heavy division has about 25 to 28 thousand troops, divide 100 million by that figure. That's a whole lot of divisions.

Yeah, yeah.
Didn't I read this article back in 1990 about what a bad-@$$ army Saddam Hussein had? Oh, yeah, and back in October the same author was talking about how we'd never win a war in Afghanistan, either.
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Nonetheless.

China is gearing up.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least that w/in 20 years we'll be "at odds w/'em - & perhaps as allies of Russia ....
 

striderteen

New member
The LAV-III is a waste of money. The armor protection is rated only for 7.62mm AP -- that's right, an "armored" vehicle with the equivalent of Class III body armor. It is not amphibious. It's wheeled and has poor cross-country performance. It is not, despite what the Army says, transportable via C-130 -- it's too tall and wide to fit. It carries only a 25mm Bushmaster autocannon and a 7.62mm machine gun -- although they're looking at an unmanned 105mm turret to stick on top (but only for THREE LAVs per DIVISION, the rest having a mix of lighter weapons).

I say we should buy the Russian BMP-3. Armoring is good for up to 25mm and 30mm autocannon; fully amphibious; tracked and highly mobile (much better thrust-to-weight than the Bradley; 550 HP for 18.5 tons vs 650 HP for 33 tons). It can be carried and parachute-dropped by the C-130. Armament comprises a 100mm gun/missile launcher (with laser-guided Arkan heavy anti-tank missiles), 30mm autocannon, and triple 7.62mm machine guns. It also has the ARENA automatic defensive system (automatic flares/jamming/countermeasures).
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Class III body armor not good...

...against tungsten-carbide penetrator 7.62, or even steel-core.

.308 ball or softpoint, yes; .308 AP, no.


Just trust me on this one. ;)


(But yes, the LAV III is a joke, for the following reason:

The USMC is supposed to be our rapid reaction force. They have LAV's for reasons of deployability and transportability. They need to be able to hold out until "the cavalry" arrives. If "the cavalry" shows up with nothing heavier than the USMC brought in the first place, what's the point? ;) )
 

Skorzeny

New member
There is NO doubt that the Chinese are making concerted efforts to upgrade the technology of its military.

The problem is that the Chinese are fighting the same budget ary pressures as any other military - one between investing in future technologies and that of maintaining and raising the readiness of current units.

The bulk of their military is made up of vast, immobile infantry units that are quite frankly primitively armed and utterly useless beyond territorial defense. They do have some "showcase" units (like air units armed with a few SU-27's and army quan tou or "Fist" units), but in any kind of sustained conflict with anyone with a decently modern military, they would "wear out" rather quickly.

The primary problem for the Chinese is that they completely lack any kind of means of power projection - their air force is largely or completely devoid of in-flight refueling capability (not to mention the fact that the vast majority of their aircraft are unserviceable), their army is largely immobile (not to mention lacking any kind of strategic means of transport) and their navy has little amphibious capability and almost no deep ocean-going naval power (it was once declared by a US military officer that any PLA attempt to invade Taiwan is likely to turn into a "million man swim").

Combined with the internal political problems of the military (i.e. military-owned commercial enterprises), the PLA begins to look a lot less menacing that it seems on paper.

Much more interesting, for me in any case, is the cyber battle between semi-official groups from the PRC and the US on the Web.

Skorzeny
 

Navy joe

New member
Sadly I hate to believe fiction, but since some people read the Washington Post, I guess I'll believe mine. FWIW, Tom Clancy wrote about this too, as well as writing about some yahoo crashing a plane into Capitol Hill. His assessment of the China situation was pretty interesting too, many parallels in today's real news. Seems to me that petrol to run all their toys will be their undoing. Also seems to me that constantly underestimating all our opponents will one day be ours. It really doesn't help when the media pumps up somebody like Sodamn Insane and then he turns out to be a pushover. One day somebody will bite back and everyone out there in TV land may have to learn to deal with casualties without flying the flag at half-staff everyday or depleting the world's supply of yellow ribbon.:barf:
 

striderteen

New member
...against tungsten-carbide penetrator 7.62, or even steel-core.

.308 ball or softpoint, yes; .308 AP, no.


Just trust me on this one.


(But yes, the LAV III is a joke, for the following reason:


Oops, you're right. Class III will stop normal 7.62mm FMJ, but not AP.
 
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