Chicago - Gun Crime Sanctuary City?

MTT TL

New member
Chicago - Gun Crime Sanctuary City? This articles implies that Chicago is the master of their own fate when it comes to gun violence as the laws are seldom enforced and offenders are given light punishments.

In her confrontation with Texas Sen. Ted Cruz over guns used in Chicago crimes, which, as Cruz pointed out in response to the Dayton and El Paso shootings, occur in a city which has its own mass murder equivalent virtually every weekend, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot blamed guns brought in from Republican-controlled states. Hypocrisy has a new poster child for what Lightfoot fails to note is that what is important is not where the weapons came from, but what happened to the gun criminals and gangbangers afterword, if apprehended at all, which in Lightfoot’s Chicago has been virtually nothing.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/art...a_gun_crime_sanctuary_city.html#ixzz5yzSDLoal
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I think it is a powerful argument, you will need to read the bulk of it at the link.
 

DaveBj

New member
I would find the "guns from Indiana" argument amusing, if the topic weren't so serious in terms of human life and suffering. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but the population of the Chicago-area counties amounts to a minority (?40%?) of the population of Illinois, but a relatively small minority of that 40% is responsible for a large majority (?80%?) of the violent crime in the state. Those in the remaining ?60%? of the population of Illinois have the same access to "guns from Indiana," and yet they are responsible for only about 20% of the violent crime. There is more going on in Chicago than just "guns from Indiana".

When I get back from downtown, I'll see if I can find the exact figures, and maybe a link.

D
 

MTT TL

New member
a relatively small minority of that 40% is responsible for a large majority (?80%?) of the violent crime in the state

It is the same most places. I live in Alabama. Alabama is considered a high crime "state". Remove Jefferson County (Greater Birmingham) from the picture and we drop to last place in State rankings. Jefferson County has 15% of the population of the state and accounts for 40% of the murders. Birmingham has a higher murder rate than Chicago.
 

FITASC

New member
And both Chicago and Birmingham, along with many other large cities, all have several thongs in common - most of which would be deemed to be political in nature and not allowed here. But some easy Google searching can find it
 

BobCat45

New member
Chicago maps

It is important to note that violent crime, besides being perpetrated by a small subset of the population in any given city, is also highly localized withing particular neighborhoods.

Here is the Chicago Tribune shooting victim map: https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/ct-shooting-victims-map-charts-htmlstory.html#nt=latestnews&rt=floating-rail and scroll down to mid-page.

Here is another version of the map but with more statistics:
https://heyjackass.com/

It is noteworthy that large areas of the city are devoid of reported shootings.
 
BobCat45 said:
It is important to note that violent crime, besides being perpetrated by a small subset of the population in any given city, is also highly localized withing particular neighborhoods.

Here is the Chicago Tribune shooting victim map: https://www.chicagotribune.com/data/...=floating-rail and scroll down to mid-page.

Here is another version of the map but with more statistics:
https://heyjackass.com/

It is noteworthy that large areas of the city are devoid of reported shootings.
Although true, I don't see your opening statement as being all that important. The city (or town ... "municipality") is about the smallest political jurisdiction we have in the U.S. that falls under a single governmental jurisdiction.

If we start at the international level, we can say that some countries have higher rates of crime than others. Oh, but wait! Some of each country's regions or provinces (states, for the U.S.) are safer than others. So then we look at the states, and we find that some counties are safer than others. And then within each county, some municipalities are safer than others. Within each municipality, some neighborhoods are safer than others, and then some blocks within each neighborhood are safer than others, until we get down to "my building is safer than your building."

The bottom line is that blocks, streets, and neighborhoods don't have their own governments. In the U.S., the smallest/lowest level of public government is typically the city/town. Therefore, regardless of whether 90 percent of the violence is confined to 10 percent of the geographic area within a municipality ... it's still under the purview of the municipal government, so IMHO they own it.
 

Armed_Chicagoan

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
]Although true, I don't see your opening statement as being all that important. The city (or town ... "municipality") is about the smallest political jurisdiction we have in the U.S. that falls under a single governmental jurisdiction.
That's the point, the gun laws are uniform but the murder distribution is concentrated in a few areas. So we can rule out gun laws as being the primary driver of violence, and instead look at cultural factors. In this case a gang culture that is glorified and celebrated within those communities, and even has political influence.
 

Spats McGee

Administrator
Although true, I don't see your opening statement as being all that important. The city (or town ... "municipality") is about the smallest political jurisdiction we have in the U.S. that falls under a single governmental jurisdiction.

If we start at the international level, we can say that some countries have higher rates of crime than others. Oh, but wait! Some of each country's regions or provinces (states, for the U.S.) are safer than others. So then we look at the states, and we find that some counties are safer than others. And then within each county, some municipalities are safer than others. Within each municipality, some neighborhoods are safer than others, and then some blocks within each neighborhood are safer than others, until we get down to "my building is safer than your building."

The bottom line is that blocks, streets, and neighborhoods don't have their own governments. In the U.S., the smallest/lowest level of public government is typically the city/town. Therefore, regardless of whether 90 percent of the violence is confined to 10 percent of the geographic area within a municipality ... it's still under the purview of the municipal government, so IMHO they own it.
This illustrates one of the difficulties of gun control as an issue. A national gov't looks at the issue of "gun deaths*" on a macro and sees how many total people are killed each year. Presidential candidates have to discuss the Umpteen-Thousand people who are killed each year because they have to pander to a national audience. And national policies are created on a national scale. But sometimes they don't work on smaller scales. City to city, or building to building. Governments care how many people die. Individuals care which ones.

* =Yes, I know. Not really any better or worse than other deaths.
 

BobCat45

New member
Thanks Armed Chicagoan, that is exactly the point I was trying to make; the laws are uniform throughout the city but "gun crime" is not at all.

The title of this thread is about Chicago being a "Gun crime sanctuary city" and, having grown up in what is known locally as "Chicagoland" - the city and near suburbs - I think it is important to note that Chicago gangsters have been killing each other for many, many years. Gang warfare is endemic to the culture.

The point being danced around is the one to which FITASC alludes. Currently, gang warfare is between gangs of young people whose ancestors came from a particular continent.

It is forbidden, for good reason, to 'go there' on this Forum, but it should be noted that gang membership is not, nor has it historically been, limited to any one group.

The forebears of the gangs that made Chicago famous for gang warfare were largely from Europe. As those immigrants assimilated and "made their way up" the social ladder, they became part of the power structure and the need to keep shooting each other diminished because there were other ways to wield power - like awarding lucrative contracts for public works to their supporters, and withholding such rewards from their detractors.

So, although I am happy to be from Chicago, as in 'not there any more', I still don't like to see the entire City smeared as a "gun crime sanctuary" based on the violent acts of a relatively small number of disaffected young people whose families, communities, and schools (city run schools) have been delinquent in showing them a way towards respect and prosperity that does not involve localized civil war.

Clearly, restrictive gun laws do not eliminate "gun violence" - but don't please dump on the entire city because their restrictive gun laws are ineffective.
 
Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot blamed guns brought in from Republican-controlled states.

That's a cheap dodge. She ran for Mayor by touting her record as an aggressive prosecutor, and she promised to ameliorate the crime problem in Chicago. She doesn't get to throw her hands up and say, "oh well. It's all because of Indiana."

Yes, guns move across state lines. That's nothing new. Guns found in crime scenes in, say, Georgia come from all over the place as well. She wants to push the narrative that people are going to Indiana or Wisconsin, buying up guns, and feeding them directly into the illicit market in Illinois. This isn't true. The vast majority of guns recovered in Chicago have been in circulation for over a decade. Those guns were probably in a lot of places before they ended up in Garfield Park or Riverdale. Perhaps Mayor Lightfoot should consider actually prosecuting people for trafficking, which is something the city rarely does.

This is part of a larger problem. The clearance rate for homicides in Chicago is 18%. The vast majority of these homicides are focused in 7 or 8 neighborhoods, which taken together, only cover a few square miles. Yet those neighborhoods impoverished and hopeless (I know, I've been there), and none of the city's Big Fancy Renewal Programs ever seem to be focused there. The cops don't do routine patrols there. The schools are a disaster. Kids growing up there don't have a chance. Mayor after Mayor has promised to do something, but once the cameras are off, all the money goes to making the city attractive to tourists and building fancy malls along 294.

The plain fact is this: when they passed their handgun ban in 1982, the promise was that it would reduce the homicide rate. They didn't tell their citizens, "well, this might help, but don't expect much because Indiana." The equation was handgun ban=lower homicide. Spoiler: it didn't. Absent any other policing or prosecution initiatives, the murder rate rose, even when the national average started to plummet in the 1990s.

Given its obvious and total failure, you'd think they wouldn't mind repealing it. Nope. They clung to it for dear life, screaming it was a vital public safety measure, even as the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. And why? Because their city is a mess, the current situation is the result of decades of corruption and mismanagement, and they think they can get the public off their backs if they just pass a ban or do a buyback for the cameras. Until that changes, the bleeding will continue.
 

kmw1954

New member
Someone suggested starting at the Top and working down, from Fed to neighborhood.

I say hogwash. I grew up in a suburb of Chicago, My ex-wife is from the North side and my eldest daughter was born at Ravenswood Hospital in Chicago.

As stated there are 4-6 neighborhoods that are the Hot Spots and some of that spills over to adjoining neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods have not changes in my lifetime (65yrs.) My maternal grandmother told me a story of once going to Al Capone for help during the depression because the city and the church would/could do nothing.

So now just a month ago there was a story I related to that took place in Chicago were two young mothers were trying their best to fight the neighborhood violence and were members of a group MASK, look it up. They were holding a vigil on a street corner when they were gunned down in a drive-by assassination.

Here these young women were trying to take back their neighborhood, trying to make a difference and were killed for it. There was a small group in attendance that night and they want to say that no one in the group could identify the shooters! I do not believe that for one moment.

If they want change then this is where it needs to start. In the Neighborhoods by the people that live there daily. They have to take their neighborhoods back. They need to run the gangs out. They know who the gangs are and they let them thrive because many are family members!
 

MTT TL

New member
If they want change then this is where it needs to start. In the Neighborhoods by the people that live there daily. They have to take their neighborhoods back. They need to run the gangs out.

Unfortunately they lack the tools to do so legally.
 

BobCat45

New member
Yes, kmw1954, you are right that they need to take their neighborhoods back but MTT TL is also correct, they lack the means.

And I do not think the reason they "let them thrive" is because "many are family members", although that may be a factor. As you just pointed out, it is simply too dangerous to buck the gangs, they'll kill you for it. Always been that way.

All of which just reinforces the idea that restrictive gun laws, which apply all over the city, do nothing to ameliorate the shooting deaths in hot-spot neighborhoods.

Now, if "the authorities" happened to catch the guys who shot those ladies, and were able to protect the brave souls who 'ratted them out', maybe things would be different. This is the same litany - "Don't pass more laws, enforce those on the books."
 

FITASC

New member
If they want change then this is where it needs to start. In the Neighborhoods by the people that live there daily. They have to take their neighborhoods back. They need to run the gangs out. They know who the gangs are and they let them thrive because many are family members!

But they can't do that because they are unarmed against gangs with great firepower and politicians who do not care because the gangs make political donations.
 

OneFreeTexan

New member
St. Louis, and East St. Louis are two different cities, in two different states. Years ago, St, Louis was relatively safe,,,East St. Louis,,,definitely not.

Don’t have a clue how they are now.
 
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