So kick me, I was channel surfing slightly, stopped on CBS news cause it is HD, and they were updating the Ft. Hood story. I don't watch, normally. As you may see why. They said the gun the Major used was traced to a nearby gunshop. They did not name a make or model, but they put emphasis on saying "the gun he owned is known as the COP KILLER" I am unaware of any model of gun called that. Does anyone know what he actually was carrying, as CBS news apparently looks at it as an opportunity for exploiting their bias. I of couse will not tune in any more as usual.
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CBS News: Gun called "cop killer"?
- Thread starter Tom2
- Start date
This on ABC site... FWIW
.....red emphasis mine.
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers are investigating whether the gun used in the Fort Hood massacre was purchased at the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas, according to the store co-manager.
Nidal Malik Hasan
This undated image taken from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences Fall 2007... Expand
This undated image taken from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences Fall 2007 newsletter shows Nidal Malik Hasan. Maj. Hasan an Army psychiatrist set to be shipped overseas opened fire Thursday Nov. 5, 2009 at the Fort Hood Army post, authorities said, a rampage that killed 12 people and left 31 wounded in the worst mass shooting ever at a military base in the United States. Collapse
(Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, via AP)
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said the manager who gave only his first name, Dave. He said he did not want to reveal the name for fear it would compromise the investigation.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
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64 Years Later, Army Repays Wrongfully Convicted Veteran
More from Brian Ross and the Investigative Team
They declined to comment as they left Guns Galore in a car with Department of Defense markings.
The manager said he recognized a photo shown to him of Major Nidal Malik Hasan, identified by authorities as the suspect shooter at Fort Hood. But he said Hasan would have had to show identification if he had bought the gun in his name.
The co-manager said the agents were interested in a FN pistol that uses 5.7 caliber ammunition.
The Associated Press, citing federal law enforcement sources, said the suspect used only one semi-automatic weapon in the attack.
.....red emphasis mine.
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers are investigating whether the gun used in the Fort Hood massacre was purchased at the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas, according to the store co-manager.
Nidal Malik Hasan
This undated image taken from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences Fall 2007... Expand
This undated image taken from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences Fall 2007 newsletter shows Nidal Malik Hasan. Maj. Hasan an Army psychiatrist set to be shipped overseas opened fire Thursday Nov. 5, 2009 at the Fort Hood Army post, authorities said, a rampage that killed 12 people and left 31 wounded in the worst mass shooting ever at a military base in the United States. Collapse
(Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, via AP)
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said the manager who gave only his first name, Dave. He said he did not want to reveal the name for fear it would compromise the investigation.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
Related
Nidal Malik Hasan, Suspected Fort Hood Shooter, Was Called "Camel Jockey"
64 Years Later, Army Repays Wrongfully Convicted Veteran
More from Brian Ross and the Investigative Team
They declined to comment as they left Guns Galore in a car with Department of Defense markings.
The manager said he recognized a photo shown to him of Major Nidal Malik Hasan, identified by authorities as the suspect shooter at Fort Hood. But he said Hasan would have had to show identification if he had bought the gun in his name.
The co-manager said the agents were interested in a FN pistol that uses 5.7 caliber ammunition.
The Associated Press, citing federal law enforcement sources, said the suspect used only one semi-automatic weapon in the attack.
OK, thanks. Well I thought that the FN ammo available on the open market was just gonna be soft point or HP or something, that would not penetrate like the ammo they sell to official agencies. BTW they showed a Ruger auto pistol firing, in the news story on CBS, for one, they might have shown others. Well I do avoid network news as a primary source of viewing lately. BTW I see they are implying that the Major did not purchase the gun himself, and a neighbor of his said the guy had a mystery visitor just before the attack, so I suspect they are searching for the actual buyer of the gun, maybe?
The FiveSeven has a 30 round mag and would go through most people a close range and injure or kill who ever was behind them.
The commonly available 5.7 ammunition is actually quite pathetic as penetration goes.
It's a good thing he bought into the empty hype, many more of those 30 injured may have been killed if he had chosen a more effective arm.
That would explain how he injured 30+ people.
The FiveSeven has a 30 round mag and would go through most people a close range and injure or kill who ever was behind them.
Doug
No it does not. civi 5.7 ammunition penetrates about the same as 9mm and likes to turn sideways expending most of its energy without exiting.
Se even if you are saying the 5.7 civvy ammo is not anything that the standard 9MM ammo isn't, in effectiveness, or more or less, I suspect that it is in danger of becoming the next "black talon" if the media runs with their own cop killer label, and FN might have to adjust their marketing or products. That bogus label seems to be something the press likes to fall back on as it seems to them as an effective method to get results.......
Guy at work said something interesting about this shooting. I said "all these shootings are just feeding the fire for the "ban all guns" groups" to which he said "... what if no one could get guns... they would just be using bombs" That really struck me. I wonder if that ever occures to anyone. You can ban guns but would the result be less deaths or just nuts using something vastly more dangerous.
Sorry about the hijack, just seemed an important part of the topic.
Sorry about the hijack, just seemed an important part of the topic.
LanceOregon
Moderator
The FiveSeven has a 30 round mag
Doug, that is not true. The Five-seveN uses 20 round mags. Basically everything you said about the Five-seveN pistol is untrue.
--
The gun is sold with 3 20 round magazines. 30 round mags or 10 round extensions are readily available.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135373931
http://www.buymilsurp.com/fn-fivese...extension-convert-20-to-a-30-rnds-p-4933.html
As far a penetration compared to a 9mm it depends on who's report and what ammo is used. I agree both are about the same.
The 5.7mm SS192 civilian round doesn't punch through the target. The only gelatin test with it that I know of stated 8 -10 inches penetration in bare gelatin and 9 - 9.7 inches through heavy clothing.
The military 5.7mm ammo doesn't deform at all. It is an FMJ. The civilian JHP SS192 ammo actually doesn't deform either, despite being a hollow point. It is made to tumble just like the military SS190 and has a length of .85", maximizing the wound cavity.
There are two civilian loads for the 5.7x28mm: the SS196 and the SS197. Both use a 40 grain V-max bullet. The SS196 is 1650 fps and the SS197 is 2000 fps.
The FN Five-seveN Forum (http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=22)
And with his credentials he should be able to get the LE only rounds also.
The SS198LF is restricted to Military and Law Enforcement Officers by FN's own policy, it bridges the gap between the SS192/SS195LF and the SS190 duty round for officers whose department will not buy ammunition for them. Like the SS195LF, the SS198LF contains a lead free primer. It is distinguished from the SS195LF by its green tip. An increased powder charge increases the velocity from the FiveseveN to ~2200ft/sec and the P90/PS90 to ~2500ft/sec.
Either way it was not the gun but the guy. I am sure he had access to a lot more dangerous devices if he wanted them.
Doug
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=135373931
http://www.buymilsurp.com/fn-fivese...extension-convert-20-to-a-30-rnds-p-4933.html
As far a penetration compared to a 9mm it depends on who's report and what ammo is used. I agree both are about the same.
The 5.7mm SS192 civilian round doesn't punch through the target. The only gelatin test with it that I know of stated 8 -10 inches penetration in bare gelatin and 9 - 9.7 inches through heavy clothing.
The military 5.7mm ammo doesn't deform at all. It is an FMJ. The civilian JHP SS192 ammo actually doesn't deform either, despite being a hollow point. It is made to tumble just like the military SS190 and has a length of .85", maximizing the wound cavity.
There are two civilian loads for the 5.7x28mm: the SS196 and the SS197. Both use a 40 grain V-max bullet. The SS196 is 1650 fps and the SS197 is 2000 fps.
The FN Five-seveN Forum (http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=22)
And with his credentials he should be able to get the LE only rounds also.
The SS198LF is restricted to Military and Law Enforcement Officers by FN's own policy, it bridges the gap between the SS192/SS195LF and the SS190 duty round for officers whose department will not buy ammunition for them. Like the SS195LF, the SS198LF contains a lead free primer. It is distinguished from the SS195LF by its green tip. An increased powder charge increases the velocity from the FiveseveN to ~2200ft/sec and the P90/PS90 to ~2500ft/sec.
Either way it was not the gun but the guy. I am sure he had access to a lot more dangerous devices if he wanted them.
Doug
It doesn't usually work like that. Usually it takes official approval from a superior with the proper qualifications to purchase restricted items like that. Just because a person is in LE or in the military doesn't mean they can walk into a gun store off the street and purchase restricted items.And with his credentials he should be able to get the LE only rounds also.
johnKSa is right- Being military or Le does not entitle one to the restricted stuff, maybe a Swat Capt for the 5.7 Ap stuff.
This is being spun not as a terrorist act but as a law enforcement action-
Ergo, mo gun control, what else can the libs say since they are not going to admit to this being a terrorist act on Obama's watch- just ain't happeeing
This is being spun not as a terrorist act but as a law enforcement action-
Ergo, mo gun control, what else can the libs say since they are not going to admit to this being a terrorist act on Obama's watch- just ain't happeeing
EnoughGun said:Guy at work said something interesting about this shooting. I said "all these shootings are just feeding the fire for the "ban all guns" groups" to which he said "... what if no one could get guns... they would just be using bombs" That really struck me. I wonder if that ever occures to anyone. You can ban guns but would the result be less deaths or just nuts using something vastly more dangerous.
Just ask the Israelis. Don't need a gun to kill a lot of people. Actually, a gun (especially a pistol) is probably the least effective way to kill a lot of people.
RamSlammer
New member
The man was a mentally defective COWARD. Whatever armament he used is irrelevant.
SigP6Carry
New member
Here's my thought: I don't care what gun he used, I just care that he gets what's coming to him in the legal system. I grew up on Chicago news, so I used to seeing crazy shooting news with words like "hi-powered" "cop-killer" "Saturday night special" and "assault weapon" for every and any shooting I've ever seen on the news.
Double Naught Spy
New member
It's a good thing he bought into the empty hype, many more of those 30 injured may have been killed if he had chosen a more effective arm.
Of course, we don't know if he bought into the hype or not. We don't know his reasoning for choosing this particular gun and caliber. For all we know, he chose it for size and capacity or that he felt he could better control its recoil more so than that of some other more powerful caliber. Maybe that is why he didn't use his more powerful revolver.
As for the effectiveness, that would be true of virtually every caliber. There is always something better, more powerful, more destructive. Of course, another reason why more people weren't killed is that they were shot in non-vital areas such as arms and legs. Hasan's proficiency was apparently somewhat lacking. Triage reports had several of the victims telling the doctors and nurses to move on to other victims who were more gravely injured. Kimberly Munley who shot Hasan 4 times was herself shot 3 times, in both legs and one wrist.
Does anyone know what he actually was carrying?
Not me...But Shepard Smith on FOX called it a high powered 9mm sometimes refered to as a cop killer. I think they just like using the words for any firearm.