Casters, Time to Have Your Brains Picked on the Basics...

[Shane Tuttle]

Of all the reloading threads that's been going on in the past few months, I haven't seen a whole heckuva lot of casting ones. I've been getting ready to start casting for the first time. I've done some searching here and on a couple of other boards to get my feet wet. Here are some basic questions that I've been trying to draw a consensus...

1. Quite a few different brands of molds out there. I've been seeing a trend of opinions that almost mirror dies; everybody swears by one brand and the other is garbage. I was veering away from Lee at first, but I'm not convinced that they're really that bad of molds. I'm sure Saecos are great and all. But since I'm just starting out, I thought they would suffice. Are Lee molds that much of a headache?

2. I'll be buying a turkey fryer and a cast iron dutch oven for smelting. Any reason why this combo should be different? I thought about using a pan, but I was told that a dutch oven would be easier to use in the smelting process.

3. Linotype or Tin/Antimony? Most of my new stash of lead is in the form of WW, but I do have some pure lead. Was thinking to just do the solder trick, but wanted to see which avenue is best. I'm casting for pistol bullets only.

More questions to follow...

 

[jamaica]

I have been casting for many years. My set up is very simple. What you don't see in the picture is a camp stove for heat, and the Lyman 4500 sizer and lubricator. This is bare bones, but does the job for what bullets I need.

I am using wheel weights with a bit of solder added. Maybe half a pound of solder in that pot. I prefer the Lyman molds. Actually, I have never used another brand, but have no reason to want to. Lyman molds are great.

I just melt wheel weights a potful at a time rather than smelting a whole bucketful, skim and flux, add a little tin and cast bullets.

Do be very careful. Wear gloves and safety glasses and work outside. Hot lead is dangerous.

 

[Rusty W]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Here's a couple sites that have helped me. I've been casting for about 2 years now. I smelt in a cast iron pot, over a turkey fryer too. Mostly wheel weights but some pure from lead pipe and some mystery metal, keeping all seperate. I poor into muffin tins for use at a later date. I use a Lee 4-20 bottom pour for making bullets. I've tried the ladle, not for me, I like the bottom pour. I have and use Lee, Lyman, RCBS, and Saeco moulds. I use the Lee moulds the most. They generally take some fiddlin with to get to work but for the money, they're good moulds. I do like the steel moulds better but when I can buy 2 or 3 Lee brand moulds for what 1 of the others cost I stick with Lee. I load for 5 pistol calibers and 3 rifle calibers and have about 3 different moulds for each.

I use the Lee hardness tester to check the PSI strength/BHN of the metal/boolit, and also use the push through sizer and LLA to lube. Some magnum loads I use WW and water drop them from the mould. On the light 38spl and 45acp loads I use 50/50 (WW and pure/soft) and sometimes water drop them too. I have some Lino I use sparingly for the rifle rounds, about a 1 part lino to 3 part ww, again sometimes I water drop sometimes I don't.

The key I've found is to get the boolit to fit the bore, slugging the bore to know what you have to work with will cut out a lot of trial and error. The other thing is the PSI strength of the metal. Don't exceed what the boolit can withstand and all will be good. Welcome to the silver stream and good luck.

 

[kyle663]

i use all lee molds, not for any other reason than i got a great deal from an old reloader who sold me about a dozen molds for 100 dollars. they throw very good bullets once you get the hang of casting and lee's tend to not need resizing. I water drop my bullets as well and use ww with a little lead free solder in the mix, a bottom pour pot for casting and a turky fryer for general smelting into ingots. the key to lee molds is you have to smoke the molds before you start casting and being aluminum they tend to heat up faster than steel molds so you have to either switch to a different mold and let the other cool, or get a heat sink.lee liquid alox and tumble lube the bullets is all i do once casted.

 

[F. Guffey]

It is no longer a discipline, choice of pots or pans? Cast iron roaster, dutch oven, spider or skillet, then there is the casting pot, at least three times as thick and the capacity is smaller, cooking? water boils at 212 degrees, a dutch oven with a lid at sea level with a couple of brick sitting on the lid could increase the boiling point a few degree, pure lead melts at 618 degree, reduce the percentage of lead, reduce the melting point.

Melting points and hardness of tin lead solder.
page 3068;

Tin / lead/ melting point / brinell hardness
0 / 100/ 618.8 / 3.9
10 / 90/ 577.4 / 10.1
20 / 80/ 532.4 / 12.16
30 / 70/ 491.0 / 14.5
33 / 66/ 441.0 /
40 / 60/ 446.0 / 15.8
50 / 50/ 401.0 / 15.0
60 / 40/ 368.6 / 14.6
66 / 34/ 356.0 / 16.7
70 / 30/ 365.0 / 15.8
80 / 20/ 388.4 / 15.2
90 / 10/ 419.0 / 13.3
100 / 00/ 466.0 / 04.1

http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.htm

F. Guffey

 

[AlaskaMike]

The Lees are okay, and certainly adequate for when you're just starting out. When I was starting out I wanted to cast a couple of specific bullet styles that Lee didn't make molds for, so I ended up getting a Lyman and a couple RCBSs to start with.

I definitely like the turkey fryer and dutch oven for rendering down wheel weights into ingots. I use a bottom-pour Lee pot and being able to add clean ingots keeps my pot much cleaner. I once had an accident with my dutch oven while smelting once that could have caused me some serious physical injury, so be very careful how you pour your ingots.

Linotype is pretty hard to come by these days because most printers have already gone to more modern printing methods and got rid of their lead type. Some people are also having trouble getting wheel weights though, but I lucked out and was able to get about five 5-gallon bucketfuls from a local tire dealer. I also have an arrangement with the manager of the maintenance shop at the company I work for, so I'm swimming in wheel weights. For a source of tin I found some spools of 95/5 (tin/antimony) solder at a local plumbing shop. Some also have luck at radiator shops though too.

Good luck!
Mike

 

[CrustyFN]

1. Quite a few different brands of molds out there. I've been seeing a trend of opinions that almost mirror dies; everybody swears by one brand and the other is garbage. I was veering away from Lee at first, but I'm not convinced that they're really that bad of molds. I'm sure Saecos are great and all. But since I'm just starting out, I thought they would suffice. Are Lee molds that much of a headache?
Have never used the Lee molds but have talked to a lot of people that like them. I have only used a Lyman mold and it works great.

2. I'll be buying a turkey fryer and a cast iron dutch oven for smelting. Any reason why this combo should be different? I thought about using a pan, but I was told that a dutch oven would be easier to use in the smelting process.
Turkey fryer and dutch oven is the way to go. You can get a six quart dutch oven at Harbor Freight for under $20 with a lid. I would also recommend a thermometer. Keep the smelting temp at 700 degrees or a little less and you won't have to worry about melting zinc weights, just scoop them out with the clips.

3. Linotype or Tin/Antimony? Most of my new stash of lead is in the form of WW, but I do have some pure lead. Was thinking to just do the solder trick, but wanted to see which avenue is best. I'm casting for pistol bullets only.
Adding solder or tin to pure lead will not make it harder, you will need linotype or monotype. Adding tin to the lead will help it flow and fill out the mold better. Adding more than 2% tin is a waste of tin. I am casting straight WW's and they are testing with a BHN of 14. You could add a little of the pure lead to the WW's and still be OK.

Welcome to casting.
Rusty

 

[Ron]

I cast 9mm boolits from a 6 banger mold made by Lee and love it. It drops em streight from the mold every time. Just make sure you clean it first with carb cleaner, boil on top of the stove for 20 minutes, then smoke the mold with matches or lighter. I've got another mold ordered from Lee and can't wait for it to come in.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. I knew you'd come out of the woodwork...

I think I found a good fryer on Home Depot's site that's only available through the web. I went to Harbor Freight and they had a 12" Dutch Oven, but looked smaller than what I expected. I'd like to see if there's bigger ones out there.
Here's some more questions:

By "water dropping", do you mean dropping the bullets straight into a hot jug of water from the mold? I thought the water was for dipping the mold very quickly to release the bullets. Am I confusing two different things here?

What flux is used the most that works well? I was told candle and beeswax was the best, but can be costly and hard to find in bulk. Kitty litter? Sawdust?

What are the indicators during the casting process your mold, namely Lee, that it's too hot or too cold?

 

[CrustyFN]

I think I found a good fryer on Home Depot's site that's only available through the web. I went to Harbor Freight and they had a 12" Dutch Oven, but looked smaller than what I expected. I'd like to see if there's bigger ones out there.
Be careful the six quart pot gets heavy when full. If you go much bigger you will have to reinforce the legs on the burner to support the pot. If it's the six quart pot that I have I can fill it and scoop the clips when ready, then fill it again and scoop the clips again. I can fit a full cat litter bucket of lead in the pot doing it this way. Then I flux and pour the ingots.
Here's some more questions:

By "water dropping", do you mean dropping the bullets straight into a hot jug of water from the mold?
Yes, most people will put a towel over the bucket and cut a slot in it to let the bullets drop easier. Not sure but I thought they use cold water.
I thought the water was for dipping the mold very quickly to release the bullets. Am I confusing two different things here?
Yes, DO NOT DIP THE MOLD IN WATER. Some people will have a damp towel they set the mold on to help it cool but I haven't needed to do that.

What flux is used the most that works well? I was told candle and beeswax was the best, but can be costly and hard to find in bulk. Kitty litter? Sawdust?
Sawdust will work. Also if you stir with a wooden stick that will help. I use a broken shovel handle to stir my smelting pot. Any old candles laying around the house will work, it doesn't take much. I use around a one inch cube to flux a full six quart pot.

Hope this helps.
Rusty

 

[kyle663]

not to highjack this thread, but does anybody have any lee molds that they want to sell? I'm looking for a mold for the 9x18 mak, .366 i believe. but thought maybe if tuttle wanted to try to save some cash on used molds might help him out.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

It's helped quite a bit, Rusty. I think I'll go ahead and get the pot from Harbor Freight.

I have about 300lbs. of WW plus about 10lbs. of pure lead to smelt. My plans for "ingot molds" is to use muffin tins instead. If I can't find some study ones, I'm planning on firing up my welder and fabricate some myself using angle iron.

Do you recommend the Lee or Lyman book on casting for a first read?

 

[Shane Tuttle]

but thought maybe if tuttle wanted to try to save some cash on used molds might help him out.

Although it would and I am in the market for some, I don't think I can use this thread for a buy/sell since it isn't in the buy/sell forum...

 

[kyle663]

you can pick up an ingot mold from lee, or make some using channel iron and welding some flat plate on the ends. make sure you make a handle for it if you do, it will get hot pretty fast. i tried cheap muffin trays and the lead stuck in them half the time. if your going to get a melting pot to make your bullets, make sure the ingots you make will fit in the pot too. the muffin sized ingots dont fit in a lee production pot too well if you fill the muffin part all the way up. trust me on this

 

[10 Spot Terminator]

#1 on reference to castboolits.com ,,,

This sight will answer questions you havent even thought of yet . It will address the water quenching ( done in very COLD water ) and discuss oven treating as well to raise the BHN hardness of wheel weight cast boolits . I prefer the later as you get to inspect your bullets prior to heat treating them and if you document your alloys and treatment heat (+) time you can achieve BHN of up to 30 or slightly higher and the bullets wont be as brittle as alloys with high Linotype or Antimony contents .

 

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

My one piece of advice to you: Don't get water near you molten lead when smelting or casting. The tinsel fairy will visit you....and burn you! If water dropping bullets, make sure your bucket is AWAY from your pot!

 

[Shane Tuttle]

#1 on reference to castboolits.com ,,,

I joined there a few months ago. It's a great site with very helpful people. But the setup to search through threads isn't up to my liking. I do more lurking there to get answers instead of outright posting questions. I'm a bit of the opposite on this board....

 

[CrustyFN]

I made some ingot molds out of 3" channel and angle. If I fill them half way they fit in the Lee 10# pot and I can fill them all the way for the 20# pot. The muffin pan I have won't fit in the 10# pot so be careful if you have a 10# pot.

Rusty

 

[snuffy]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. I knew you'd come out of the woodwork...

I think I found a good fryer on Home Depot's site that's only available through the web. I went to Harbor Freight and they had a 12" Dutch Oven, but looked smaller than what I expected. I'd like to see if there's bigger ones out there.
Here's some more questions:Get that one, it'll hold more lead than you turkey fryer can support.

By "water dropping", do you mean dropping the bullets straight into a hot jug of water from the mold? I thought the water was for dipping the mold very quickly to release the bullets. Am I confusing two different things here?Cold water!

What flux is used the most that works well? I was told candle and beeswax was the best, but can be costly and hard to find in bulk. Kitty litter? Sawdust?Any oil based substance will work as a flux. Sawdust must be left to char. If it's left on the top of the melt when casting, it'll prevent the air from contacting the hot metal. That prevents oxidation, meaning you WON'T have to flux as often.

What are the indicators during the casting process your mold, namely Lee, that it's too hot or too cold?Frosty boolits! And the sprue takes more than 5 seconds to harden. As said, a wet towel can be used to cool it down, or just slow down your casting speed.

Two characters!

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Rusty and Snuffy under the same thread....can't get any better than this!

OK , we have those bases covered. Here's some more:

Some don't even use thermometers, but I'm thinking it's a wise idea for a newbie. What's a good quality thermometer out there that won't break the bank? I don't want a cheap crappy one that won't last, but I don't think spending $100 is smart, either.

After you pour into the mold, at what point do you know when to cut the sprue? If you try to "cut" too soon, you'll merely smear the lead, right? If you wait too long, you won't be able to make a clean cut easily, correct? Also, is there a danger that if you wait too long, you won't be able to open the mold and get the bullets out?