Cast from an AR15 Phase two.

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Well, I have been experimenting with cast boolets from my 5.56mm AR 15 for about a year.
I have had usable results, With a goal of migrating all my plinking loads to cast.
Plinking loads to me are comparable to the bulk buys of 55gr jacketed bullets.
Not the most accurate but can afford to shoot them in volume.

I pretty much have a working load. Took a year and three bullet types of various loads to get one I like.

I had the same goal with my 300 Black Out AR 15. I used to buy 124gr .310 fmj pulls for my plinkers. It was very easy to migrate to cast loads. ( maybe too easy) Spoiled me for the amount of work involved in getting a usable load for my 223 AR.
The 300 was like two mates finding each other. You knew it was a match right away.
My 223 has been like forcing a Fruit cake through a mail slot. It may fit, but what comes out on the other side can be a surprise.

But I digress....

My 223 upper is a A2 upper, with a 1-9 twist carbine length barrel.
Since I want to switch to a flat top upper with a scope. I figured now might be a good time to build a AR upper with cast boolits in mind as the main loads.

I had noticed that bolt gun shooters were having an easier time adapting cast loads. Usually rifle length with a 1-12 twist.

So thats were I am going.
I finally found the barrel I want at a price that did not make me puke.

Green Mountain Barrel company sells a Rifle length 223 barrel with a 1-12 twist. Matching the old M16 profile but with M4 feed ramps. And they sell it for $158

I have that on the way and the rest of the upper parts on the way.

Will see how it goes. I think I may like what I get.
If nothing else I will for sure have a light bullet prairie dog slayer.

Here be my boolits.

65 gr candidate

75gr candidate and serving plinker.

I also have some 55gr Lymans to try.

 

[skizzums]

what powder have you settled on for the 65gr? I am still kicking it around, I have casted some boolits, but not loaded any yet. I am waiting to get over to my dad's to use his mill to make my mold a little pointier and a little heavier than 55gr. I plan to drill it down about a 1/16 and put a point on it and see where the weight will be. I would love to get near 70gr.

anyways.....yeah. what powder have you been successful with? good call on the 1/12 and working off a dedicated "lead" rifle, that'll definitely be the way to go. mines 1:7 and I am worried about keeping it slow and making the needed pressure

 

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I did not have great success with the 65gr boolit. With the faster powders like 4227, 4198, 5744, RL-7 ect.
When I had the speed I was after about 1800 to 1900 fps. Softer alloy that I want to use for my Plinkers. I had ejection problems, I.E. Not enough gas.
Pushing them harder was over doing my alloy. In the 14gr range gave me the best results.
Some guys are having success casting hard and pushing them harder.
Not the direction I wanted to go. So I cant help there.

I had better success with slower powders. Specifically Varget.
18 gr of Varget gave me good results. But only with a filler to keep the pressure stable. But was very accurate and consistent.
Loading Varget with out the filler gave me dangerous ignition issues when the weather was cold. A couple click............. Bangs.. Was enough to cure me of Varget with out a filler.
H4895 maybe a good alternative as it can be loaded down some. But I am down to my last 1/4 pound of the stuff so I quit trying it.

The 55gr boolits are useless in my 1-9 I bet they would fly apart in a 1-7.

Now those 75gr boolits. They are great. I could load them down to 11gr of 5744 and still get the action to work. Speed was about 1425 fps.
So I loaded back up to 14 gr of 5744 and found the sweet spot.
Hitting right at about 1900 fps and pretty darn accurate enough.

I was very surprised at how 10 gr of bullet weight completely changed the results. I suspect 1-7 your gona want to go as heavy as you can.

Loading for a 223 AR is like a three legged stool that your trying to get a flat seat.

One leg being weight/FPS for the projectile
One leg being barrel twist/ length
One leg being Gas volume for the action.

The AR 15 is designed for for a slow powder, pushing a FMJ projectile at about 3000 fps to be in balance.

I want to take a Cast bullet ahead of fast powder and push it slower about 2000 fps.
Easy in a bolt gun. Pain in the Arse in a gas gun. But it can be done.

 

[skizzums]

thanks, I was leaning towards 4227 just because I could actually find publishe data to start from. I understand my twist is going to be a problem, but I am not looking for even 2 moa accuracy. I just wanna be able to dump mags at 25yards or so on steel targets and not care about expense. but, my wife is wanting an AR which I have the lower completed, so I could get a faster barrel, prob not a 1:12 like you, but poss a 1:10 which would make a world of difference.

ideally, I would like to push a 60(something) around 2k. would really hard cast help you think? hard as I can get it, with PC and copper gas checks. just want them to stay in one piece really

I already stock a ton of 4227 for the .300blk and my 357mags, so I would love to be able to stick with it. thanks

 

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I think a harder alloy would mitigate quite a bit of the problems.
I know when I have whined about my issues. The hard slingers just tell me to shut up and cast harder boolits.

I think you should not have too much of an issue getting what you want at 25-50 yards.

I am after 2 inches at 100 yards. With cheap alloy. Again spoiled by my 300 BLK.

 

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Starting to collect my stuff. Barrel has come in and most of the parts.
Just waiting on the free floating hand guard and had to get a different gas block. Ordered an adjustable gas block.

 

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I am finally going to make it over to my dads mill tomorrow to "hopefully" make mold a bit heavier. I am ordering stuff to hopefully get some loaded up before next week. What sizing die did you use? .224 or .225 or something more?

 

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I have a LEE .225 sizing die. I took some 300 grit and opened it up to .226.
Some guys are going to .227 but .226 seemed to work for me.

Got my hand guard in, Of course my barrel nut wrench wont work.
waiting on a new one.
Nickle and dime time. Its deer hunting time now any way. No hurry, dont want to scare/ P.O. the neighbors blasting away.

 

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I have my build done. Just need a set of standard 1 inch rings to get it scoped.
I bet I have like 5 sets. Think I can find one????
I will give it a test with 55gr jacketed then get to work on the cast loads.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Figured it was time to give an update on my AR cast bullet gun.
Its just now warming up enough that I may be able to spend some quality time with her.

I have not had a chance to really get into it with load development.
But.....
I have been able to try out a few things and have learned a few interesting items.
All ready just dinking around just trying a few powders and bullets.
The difference between shooting cast from my 1-9 carbine and this 1-12 rifle is day and night.
With my 1-9 it took weeks of work, different bullet weights, Powders, charges, Diameters, and hardness. To get it to shoot inside of 4 inches at 100 yards.
Finally ending up with a 75gr boolit with a worked up load shoot inside 2 inches on a good day if every thing was right.

This gun just grabbing any boolit and any powder I have tried.
I have not had one load shoot over 2 inches. Except my 2 inch 1=9 load. it does not like that at all.

It seems the 65gr pill is a match for this gun.

Getting juiced to get down to business and find out what this can do.
Speed does not seem to be an issue either. I havent chronograph any yet.
But pretty sure I had one set of ten going well over 2600 fps with no lead and shot good.

So far so good, It seems to be a good build for cast boolits.

Suppose to be warm next weekend. So maybe I can do some work as a plan.

 

[CS86]

Is the new 1:12 twist barrel a rifle length gas system? Have you ran the 75gr cast pills through the new barrel, and are they stabilizing fine? What depth are you seating the 75gr bullets?

I've had a 70gr cast bullet that eventually I wanted to try out of an AR that has a 1:9 twist, but I haven't had a chance and don't have much ambition to try. I've been more intrigued with the AR 300 blkout.

Nice work with the gun and testing.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Hmmmm,

the 1-12 is rifle length barrel and gas port. The 1-9 is Carbine length barrel and port.
I have tried the 75's in the 1-12 rifle. results were not great. but I havent worked at it since I already had a bunch of 65's cast and they shoot good.

Cant remember what the exact seating depth is for the 75 gr. Other than it is the exact maximum length that will still fit the mag. Same with the 65's.
The guns will take them longer but the mag is what sets the length.

I know all about getting side tracked. I have been lost to my AR10 in 308 win for a while.

My buddy and I were just talking today about wanting to make a South Dakota run for some Prairie Dog shooting.

 

[skizzums]

I am more interested in where you got that sweet blue brass....

Congrats on your build, I wish I had kept up with your thread cause I accidentally bought a set of 1" Leopold rings that have been sitting

 

[skizzums]

I am more interested in where you got that sweet blue brass....

Congrats on your build, I wish I had kept up with your thread cause I accidentally bought a set of 1" Leopold rings that have been sitting

 

[A pause for the COZ]

Sweet Blue brass. Can get all you want with a magnet.

Its the only Jacketed load i could stick in there for comparison for my Copper powder coating paint.

The 3x9 scope is not on there any more, just have a 2x tactical scope on it now.
But if I do go out to SD. I may have to get a better scope. I would take this rig and my 243 out.

 

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ha, funny, now that I am home on my computer I can clearly see that it's steel. on my phone at work it looked like anodized blue case. darn.....

I have been so pre-occupied with my mosin nagnat build that I have put my cast .223s on the back burner. now I am finishing up a 9mm AR build that I want to use a suppressor host. after that...............I honestly cant think of any other major projects to do. well, or at least i'll be so broke that'll I will probably HAVE to start casting .223. so soon, itll happen

 

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You just had to mention a 9mm AR build didnt you???

Thats on my list too. I might just get one of those Palmetto kits though.
Just when I said I was done w/ AR 15 going to work on Ar10's.
Oh well