Canada/USA and crossing the border

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Sevens

New member
So here's an uncommon scenario and I would appreciate any information or experience that anyone might have on the subject.

Short Version:
What are the laws with regards to a handgun (family heirloom) in Canada being either shipped or carried to the USA, from a Canadian citizen to be given to a related American citizen, never to return to Canada? I don't wish to pay any fees, duty, taxes, penalties, and of course, I don't wish to break any Canadian or American laws in the process. The handgun is most likely restricted in Canada in the first place, and I'm quite certain that it's not currently registered in any way, shape or form. I don't wish for my uncle to be jailed or fine for having it in the first place.

Long Version:
My grandfather passed away a year before I was born, '71. He was a former federal policeman in a European country before and around WWII. The family fled to Canada and his issued Walther pistol made the trip with him. It's still in Canada to this day.

I'm not entirely familiar with Canadian gun laws but I do know that some handguns are restricted, and one of the criteria is certain short barrel lengths. I've never seen this pistol and I don't know which Walther it is (and to be honest, I can't 100% confirm that it is indeed a Walther) but I have confidence that it's a .25 acp caliber pistol which would most likely make it quite small and short barreled. I have zero idea of it's condition or value, I only know that it has a colorful family history and it's well-traveled.

My uncle has had this pistol in his possession for at least the last 30 years. He's had it taken down in to pieces and wrapped in cloths. I can only imagine the reason for this is because he's otherwise not a gun owner/shooter and he's done this in hopes that he's not breaking any laws or that perhaps he's breaking less laws by having it in this condition. He's never shot it or taken it anywhere other than the one or two times he's moved residences when it's been packed up amongst things.

I'm the gun guy in the family and there exists the possibility that he might be interested in giving the pistol to me so that it stays in the family and yet also doesn't create any trouble for him with regards to Canadian gun laws.

One very large hurdle that I have is the colossal rift in the family (just short of a full-on feud) that exists between the generation following my Grandfather and preceding myself. My uncle doesn't have a beef with me, it's all pretty much contained in his generation and while it's healed up a bit recently, it's not pretty.

Obviously the suggestions will be to contact both Canadian and USA border guard and customs, etc etc but I think it's quite obvious why my first inclination is to ask the good folks of the forum if they have any experience with Canadian handgun ownership laws and also with guns crossing the border to change hands.

Anything you have would be helpful... or at least interesting to hear!
 

SDC

New member
There are a couple of problems you have to deal with here; first off, you need to be able to determine what the legal status of the piece in question is. If it's an antique under Canadian law, then no problem. However, to be an antique under Canadian law, it had to have been built before 1898, and it can't fire metallic cased ammunition. That would seem to rule out the pistol you're talking about, and, in any case, all .25 or .32 calibre handguns, or those handguns with barrels shorter than 106mm (about 4 1/4") are considered "Prohibited" now up here anyway. So, they're in possession of a prohibited handgun, and there's really no way for it to be "un-prohibited" in order for you to take 100% legal possession of it. Even if it was legally owned and registered, the only official way for it to be transferred to you would be for the current owner to apply for an export permit from the Canadian side and for you to apply for an import permit from the American side; I wish I had some good news for you, and that I could tell you that some of our gun control laws made sense, but that's not going to happen, sorry. :barf:
 

Sevens

New member
See, that's kind of what I have been worried about. I figured if anything, Canada would be more than happy to get the evil thing out of their county and down to the 'states where all the trigger happy wackos live.

Back in the day you'd simply put in your car and drive it over but that would be an obnoxiously idiotic risk in these post 9/11/01 times.

And I think you can understand why I don't particularly want to call up either the US or Canada and ask them, y'know?

I may never see this pistol. But thanks for the info.
 

A/C Guy

New member
Let sleeping dogs lie.

If the gun is unregistered in Canada, I would avoid informing them of it's existence. If you live in a state that does not require registration of handguns, then why involve the U.S. government? If you drive there, you could disassemble it and hide it then drive home. Some might call that smuggling, but you need to decide for yourself. The drive back into the U.S. is typically a "wave through" procedure.

I wouldn't notify either government of the handgun.
 

Sevens

New member
:) Some might call it smuggling? We ought to start a poll and find out how many people wouldn't call it smuggling! I think you may have detailed a textbook line by line definition of smuggling.

To put it plain and simply, it's illegal to take a gun across the US/CAN border without declaring it. I'm not a law breaker. That about sums it up. Depending very much which border crossing you use, it's not exactly a "wave through" procedure. I've crossed the border literally more than a hundred times and at the very least they typically ask you what you have with you. Lie to them and you've broken the law.

Since I'm not the Canadian here and I don't have the gun in my possession, I certainly have no interest in informing the Canadian Govt about the existence of it.

If you would like to drive to my Unc's house, take the pistol, drive it across the border and give it to me, I'd be happy to buy you lunch for your time. If you want to share different stories of how the customs agents can derail someone's day, I can share a heap of those but TFL doesn't care much for threads that drift away from the subject of firearms.
 

JWT

New member
Chances are you could drive across the border without being inspected or challenged if you didn't declare the gun BUT if you get caught you're in BIG trouble. I don't believe it's worth the penalties you don't make it.
 

kristop64089

New member
What about having him disassemble the gun, ship you the parts in spurts, then finally have the frame shipped?
May be the same PITA, but worth a shot.?
 

JustDreadful

New member
What about having him disassemble the gun, ship you the parts in spurts,

That's what I was thinking, except I'd have all the parts shipped (not legally problematic at all, at least here in the US) and then go get the frame. I doubt US Border Patrol would care much about the bare frame of an old pistol.
 

Sevens

New member
Actually, according to the letter of the law, the frame with serial number pretty much IS a firearm and the rest of it is all scrap metal. I could probably drive across the border with the slide and barrel laying on the dashboard. (obviously, that would get me a 4 hour interview, but it wouldn't be illegal)

Chances are you could drive across the border without being inspected or challenged if you didn't declare the gun BUT if you get caught you're in BIG trouble. I don't believe it's worth the penalties you don't make it.
I completely and wholeheartedly agree, 100%.
 

Al Norris

Moderator Emeritus
Sevens, while I understand your reluctance to get the government(s) involved, you might be surprised at the actual help the BATF can be.

I suggest you send an email off to Ken (Wildalaska), and see what he has to say.

Now.....

Some members who have posted to this thread, who have in any way advocated an unlawful activity, have violated the basic tenent of TheFiringLine: The Advancement of Responsible Firearm Ownership.

While your "hearts" may have been in the right place, your thinking processes have shown an incredible disregard for the rule of law. I'll let Bud deal with you as he sees fit - not being my forum.

As it is, the thread is closed.
 
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