Can you really pull the trigger?

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The Plainsman

New member
Several weeks ago, I posted a thread on the "General Discussion" forum, entitled "I shot a man". The "shooting" occurred during a firearms simulation training session at my local Sheriff's Office. Even though I was using wax bullets and I knew that nobody would be hurt, it still took some soul-searching on my part to pull the trigger on the BG.

Afterward, one of the instructors was doing a de-briefing for us students and we started a discussion of whether any of us could actually pull the trigger in a real-life situation. About half of us had succeeded in dropping the BG and the other half got shot by the BG.

The instructor recommended a book, "On Killing" by Dr. Dave Grossman, PhD., who is also a retired LtCol. Army Ranger. I have since read the book and highly recommend it to any of my brother and sister TFL'ers who have ever wondered about the thought processes of killing someone, regardless of the justification or circumstances. It's scary. Unless you've actually had the experience, you can only speculate about your personal reaction, but this book will help you figure it out.

Good read.
 
S

Spectre

Staff Alumnus
I can't say that I understand having any doubts whatsoever about the ability to defend oneself, family, or country. I construe this as doing one's duty. I was baffled to find a few in my Infantry training who wondered aloud if they could "actually shoot someone". I rather wanted to break out the clue bat. They V O L U N T E E R E D to join the infantry. The infantry's mission is to break things and kill people. If they couldn't do the job, they shouldn't have joined. Likewise, if any doubt is present as to one's willingness to pull the trigger when lethal force is called for in the civilian arena, that person has no business carrying any dedicated lethal defensive tool.
 
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boris_01

New member
First off I've never shot anyone. Could I? I would hope so. But don't know definitely. I've had this disscussion several times and always some gungho blow hard says "If you point a gun at somebody, you better be ready to use it." And they continue to brag about how they would not hessitate if the situation arose. Truth is, you do not know how you will respond until you do respond. You do not definitely know that you will shoot someone until you pull the trigger. Even if you have pulled it before on someone. Each time is different. Perhaps the time you did before scarred you psychologically and would hamper your reaction.
Spectre, being in the infantry could definitly help with you reaction. Being pumped and trained. Mentally, physically and skillfully. Not to mention that being in the infantry in a situation where you most likely will be expecting a fight will prep you and affect you mentally the favor of you pulling the trigger. Unlike in a street defense situation where it probably will surprise you. And in a street defense situation you have to also deal with the legality of everything passing through your mind. ( Does this constitute the use of deadly force? And will the law see it that way?) And even not being sure if I could actually shoot someone. Yes the second ammendment says that I CAN own and carry a lethal defensive tool. ( Gun) And my Concealed Carry permit says so too.
 
S

Spectre

Staff Alumnus
Though said of something else, also applicable here:

Let every man (Old English, substitute person, human, etc) be convinced in his own mind.

I don't want to sound like a blowhard or a Jedi knight, but your attitude will make all the difference in a life and death struggle. Be certain you can do what you need to do, or any weapon you carry is a major hindrance instead of help to you, and innocents around you. If you have any doubts about whether you can pull that trigger (not which situation warrants it; that is open to interpretation), do not carry a firearm, for other's sake, if not your own.

Incidentally, in a CCW situation, I will not point a firearm at anyone I am not in the process of shooting. If I do not feel shooting is called for, I will not have "presented". Producing a firearm without a firm intention to use it is merely asking for an escalation.
 
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gryphon

New member
If I have to draw a weapon on someone, then they have already crossed the line between my life or theirs, and though I have no fear of dying, I'd rather it be the bad guy than me that takes the big dirt nap.

So, in answer to your question, YES.
 
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Jeff White

New member
Besides On Killing I'd recommend LTC Grossman's presentation The Bulletproof Mind. It's geared for peace officers, but it's applicable to anyone who would put themselves in a self defense or defense of others situation. It was the best 8 hours I've spent in a long time.

If you can't get to the presentation, a two hour condensed version is available on audio tape.

Jeff
 
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leadbutt

New member
Unfortunately, I would answer in the afirmitive,haveing done so inthe military, and in three encounters in the law enforcement job.If one has not conviniced him or her self they can, then they have no buissness carrying a firearm.when the chips are down as another poster said its to late to decide,But make no mistake and let no one tell you different,if you can not it does not make you a coward or worse.It is some thing I whish I never had to have done, and for you how have not I truly whish you never have to
 
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boris_01

New member
Here is my point for all of those who say that you must know or must be confindent or must believe that you can pull the trigger or else you don't need to be carrying a firearm. You cannot know 100% that you can pull the trigger until you 100% HAVE pulled the trigger. Sure I feel that I COULD, WOULD and WILL. But I don't 100% know that until I PULL the trigger. I'm not Miss Cleo. I cannot predict the future. Only when I pull the trigger and hear BOOM! Will I know for 100% sure that I could. Does not mean I doubt myself. I'm as confident as the next guy. I'm just honest.
 
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JFucile

New member
Yes

Had that question answered during my time in the corps. If it comes to me actually pointing a weapon at someone to protect someone (myself included) I will be firing at them.
 
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BamBam-31

New member
I used to wonder if I could. Sort of a "Everyone's got a Mama, everyone's got a friend" mentality. Most people have this kind of respect for life. It's normal, it's healthy, it's a good thing.

However, there are people out there that do not value human life as we do. For whatever reason, they can pull the trigger without hesitation. They are predators, and to them, we are sheep living under the hazy illusion that everyone lives by the golden rule. They use our very respect for life against us.

Well I've got a Mama, too. And if ever one of these losers decides to prey on me or mine, I will pull the trigger. I bring my Mama flowers, not the other way around.

When with sheep, be sheep. When in the presence of wolves, be a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's the only way.
 
D

Daniel

New member
Yes.

If I am attacked without provocation. The attacker has forfeited his life; by trying to take mine.

Whether, dropping the hammer/striker. Releasing the bowstring. Thrusting/slashing the knife. My mind is prepared, and I am prepared.
 
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shy_man

New member
Every one is decided to pull the trigger if there is no more way out to save his soul. Intention to kill or squezing the trigger against someone is a crime per se no matter what is the reason behind. Everyone should know that more rational CCW holder would never think to shoot or kill someone. That would be just be a chain reaction in a particular events.
 
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ATeaM

New member
"If I am attacked without provocation. The attacker has forfeited his life; by trying to take mine."

Attacked without provocation doesn't mean you have the right to kill your attacker. At least in a court of law.


Yes, I would shoot someone if it was my only option where there is no compromise. If you speculate you would hesitate in a life or death situation then you shouldn't own a gun.
 
R

Rickmeister

New member
Adrenaline. The very word conjures up images of razor-sharp timing, lightning speed, and superhuman ability.

Support your local suprarenal chapter.
 
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mike waidelich

New member
Seems like this is a pretty popular question and much on everyone's mind. My attitude is simple. I hate violence. I hate it so much I am willing to kill anyone who trys to use it against me.

If you want some good information on preparing yourself for the moment when you may have to use lethal force, I would recommend that you read Jeff Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense". You can order a copy from Barnes and Noble.
 
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The Plainsman

New member
Rickmeister....

Adrenaline may actually mean some other things that aren't conducive to all-round good decision-making or performance - stuff like tunnel vision, diminished fine motor skills, diminished hearing or vice versa. That's when the training part kicks in. All of the "old-hand" shooters with whom I've talked or read, say that your training (and all the things you did in advance to prepare) is what makes it all happen when the SHTF.

I appreciate all the comments here from all sources. I reckon what it tells us, is that we need to constantly be preparing in one form or another, for that fateful day when we are called upon to "poop or get off the pot", so to speak - kind of puttin' our money where our mouth is.

Aim small; miss small ;)
 
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LASur5r

Moderator
NO guarantee

Training is the key...but the experience of taking a life doesn't guarantee that you can do it again. If you don't have the resolve, then sometimes, training may not be enough if you're conflicted. Seen it happen before.
 
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Sierra1

New member
Training as motivation...

During departmental training utilizing Simunition rounds (wax bullets) my partner and I were "sent" on a call to a D.V. in progress. Upon arrival at the scene we had a wife who had beaten up on her husband. CA state law says the primary or most significant agressor will be arrested for D.V. so as I am hooking up the wife for imaginary ride to jail and my partner is supposed to be covering me the husband gets upset that we are taking his wife to jail and refuses to let us take her. In the blink of an eye he pulled a gun and shot me in the shoulder and arm. My partner returned fire dropping the husband. In debrief I was ruled dead and my partner received the third degree for not controlling the husband while I was hooking up the wife. But you know, while I was lying on the floor of the scenario room after I had been "killed" by the wax bullets I so incredulous that I had been shot that I simply couldn't accept it as having happened. It sucked. Granted it was all training. And both I and my partner learned a lot from it. But I never, never want to be the guy on the ground again, ruled dead by a scenario referee of the Medical Examiner for that matter. So if it comes down to it, I am pulling the trigger, and I am going home that night, simple as that!
 
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