Can a 44 WCF be safely converted to a 44 Special?

[4V50 Gary]

A friend has a Cimmaron Arms 44 WCF he wants me to convert to 44 Special. Can it be safely done?

 

[Hawg]

As long as the bore is .429 and I think all of them are. Uberti made a .44 special/44-40 convertible.

 

[MJN77]

If you mean a revolver, all you would need is to fit a .44spl cylinder to it. Like Hawg said Uberti .44 bores are all generally .429.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Thanks for the suggestion on cylinder swapping. However, the Cimmaron is not my own and the owner wants it to be reamed to something he has ammunition for. I'll consult with my instructors tomorrow and it also depends on whether the reamers and head space gauges are available.

 

[Fingers McGee]

You cant ream a 44-40 to fit a 44 special. The 44-40 is already larger than the 44 special.

 

[4V50 Gary]

From my Hornady manual, it is .002 wider.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Uhm... Check out the case head diameter.

The .44 Special has a case head diameter of .457.

The .44-40, on the other hand, has a case head diameter of .471.

In other words, the .44-40's base is substantially larger than the .44 Special.

The only reaming conversion that would work is to ream the cylinder to .45 Long Colt and either rebarrel it or ream and rerifle the barrel.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Hi Mike,

My instructors said it could be done, but would have head space issues like you pointed out. In short, they said get a new cylinder.

I told this to the owner when I returned the gun today.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Headspace wouldn't be the issue, it would be base support in the chamber.

The case would swell in the chamber.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

If your instructors think a 44-40 cylinder can be converted to 44 Special, I'd be looking for new instructors. The 44-40 is wider at the base than a 44 Special is. Drop a 44 Sp into a 44-40 chamber and it will be rattling around. No chamber reamer is going to add metal to a chamber.

For comparison, the cartridges in this photo, left to right, are 44-40, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 44 S&W American, 44 Henry Rimfire, 45 Schofiled, and 45 Colt.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Drop a 44 Sp into a 44-40 chamber and it will be rattling around."

Yep. .02 is a pretty big difference. The case would swell pretty badly. I doubt that it would rupture, as these are low-pressure cartridges, but that possibility certainly exists.

 

[davem]

The answer is no. The 44/40 is a slight bottleneck which is why the same bullets can SOME TIMES be used depending on when the gun was made. You need to mike what you have.
What's wrong with the 44/40? A little trouble reloading because of the bottle neck but otherwise a very good round. Probably killed more deer than any other round.

 

[Kappe]

I know the original question has been answered, but my Lyman handbook lists the .44-40 as .443-.444 at the mouth and .471 at the base. The .44 Special is .457 from mouth to base.

The taper to .443-.444 on the .44-40 starts at .927" and ends at 1.017" from the base. The .44 Special case is 1.16" long.

A .44 Special shouldn't chamber at all in a .44-40 gun. The .44-40 shoulder would stop it.

 

[davem]

There's other issues as well. The case was originally of balloon construction but now a days it is solid like any other case- which means in a rifle you could bump it up and also a handgun- too some extent. The point being that it should be more than equal to any 44 spl.
With all the cowboy action shooting the brass ought to be as plentiful or more so than the 44 spl.
To each his own but I see no benefit to switching to 44 spl unless someone is sitting on a lot of 44 spl brass.

 

[Hawg]

A .44 Special shouldn't chamber at all in a .44-40 gun. The .44-40 shoulder would stop it.

It wont.

 

[4V50 Gary]

The owner tried to put a 44 special into the 44-40 cylinder. No go. It won't fit.

As clarification, my instructors recommended against the conversion. They don't promote shoddy work.

 

[davem]

Yeah, it is the other way. This idea you can fire a 44 spl in a 44/40 chamber, I know you can fire form certain cases, but to my knowledge the changing of the case is mostly in the neck and shoulder area. If the base around the rim is undersized- I'm not sure you can assume the round is safe to fire. Why?
The way I understand it the case fits fairly well into the chamber. There has to be a gas seal and when the powder explodes the brass expands and very momentarily pushes against the sides of the chamber and creates a gas seal and also keeps the case from slamming backwards- that's why the Ackley Improved versions can be loaded to hotter levels. In any event maybe someone with better knowledge on this can join in as to the safety aspect. If the fit is loose around the base/web, might create issues.

 

[44flattop]

As clarification, my instructors recommended against the conversion. They don't promote shoddy work.

That's good because this would certainly qualify as shoddy work. The good news is that cylinders are readily available.

 

[davem]

I think the difference in the base is a real issue. The other thing is bullet diameter. If I recall, originally a 44/40 used a .427 bullet but it was so close the a 44 spl (.430) that now 44/40's use .429 0r .430.
Whether slugging a bore and sizing bullets makes any difference- I don't know.
IAE, the big problem with the 44/40 was that balloon case that couldn't take high pressures. I have asked A LOT OF FOLKS why a modern, solid web 44/40 case cannot be loaded up to NEAR 44 Magnum pressures IF USED IN A GUN THAT CAN HANDLE IT. In other words if you have a gun with frame and cylinder that takes a 44 magnum, if the thing is chambers for a 44/40 could not similar levels be obtained?
From what I found:
44/40 Base .471 Rim ,525
44 Mag Base .457 Rim .514

That means more metal around the cylinder wall on the 44 magnum so the 44/40 would have to be backed off some. Trouble is- the safety police keep having a fit.

 

[Hawg]

44-40 can be loaded pretty close to 44 mag pressures in a gun that can handle it like the Rossi 92 rifle but the thin cases won't last long at all loaded that hot.