California Handguns Leaping off the Shelf!

Napoleon Solo

New member
Like clockwork, panic has set in among handgun buyers. Everybody and his brother was in the local dealer last weekend. I was picking up a Luger and the dealer had NO time to talk with me. The place was hopping! Everybody is trying to get that last handgun of the year before the new jackass laws set in.

Typically, nobody seems to know the law yet. My brother was told by one FFL dealer that his DD214 would continue to exempt him from all but the background check, 10 day wait and one-gun-a-month-maximum limit. My dealer said, "no way Jose. DD214 is worthless."

With such confusion, is it any wonder Californians are packing gun stores to get one last handgun, with many trying to figure out how to legally get two in one month?

Ay caramba! Good thing I have kept up my one-gun-a-month rate all year. For me, this year has been all WWII Lugers. Next year is looking like Trapdoors, Garands, and G/K43s.
 

westex

New member
Napoleon
If I was looking at the same type of laws as are going on the books in the PRK I would be looking for a "trapdoor" too.:D
 

Napoleon Solo

New member
Still leaping! And frantically. There is much dispute over whether a handgun can be picked up after to Jan. 1, 2003, if DROSed before. No one knows but the law says no "delievery" will be allowed after Dec. 31, 2002.

Allowing for the 10-day waiting period, the last day to purchase a handgun in California under current law will be Dec. 20th. No wonder panic is setting in. Counting the days...:p
 

Gila Jorge

New member
Think that law will be declared unconstitutional
as it infringes on your constitutional rights and states are not allowed ex post facto law making abilities. But will take time for suit....unless an injunction is immediately issued by Fed Supreme Court....need to get a class action going with the suit in DC re restraints on handguns...that suit was just annnounced.
 

Kermit

New member
Went through the frenzie last year. This year I've taken a more wait and see attitude (mostly because I don't wanna max out any cards :rolleyes: ). I may pick up one last handgun this year, if the right deal strolls by.
 

madkiwi

New member
El Rojo,

Your BFSC is about to expire. If you want to buy a gun next year you have to jump through a few new hoops, and your new improved BFSC will be a license (not that they will admit it) that needs to be re-newed every 5 years.

You have to demonstrate safe handling abilities before you can take delivery of your new handgun. Go to the Cal DoJ Firearms Division to learn more. I have not paid attention because I decided I have bought my last handgun in California. I only have 3, but any more will have to wait until I get to a state that actually considers me a valuable and trusted citizen.

madkiwi
 

DadOfThree

New member
California Handguns Leaping off the Shelf!
I thought this was a thread on guns that now actively chase people. You know, like the one that just "go off" and shoot people by themselves. :D :D
 

Jim March

New member
The big problem is that individual store employees will have to "certify" that buyers know the operations drill of their new gun. So the first time some moron puts a round through his foot, he's liable to sue the employee for "mistakenly certifying him" :eek:.

So a lot of individual clerks and dealers are starting to balk at even being in the biz come 1/1/2003.

Sigh.
 

MissileMan

New member
California Handguns Leaping off the Shelf!


I thought this was a thread on guns that now actively chase people. You know, like the one that just "go off" and shoot people by themselves.


Reminds me of the handguns that are always, according to reports, "flooding our cities." I've never seen a handgun flood, but if I ever do, I hope I have a shopping cart with me.
 

twoblink

New member
El Rojo,
It's fairly simple; let me explain it to you:

In A.D. 2002
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb
Operator: We get signal
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your GUNS are belong to us
Cats: You are on the way to destruction
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....

That pretty much sums up the PRK's new laws.
 

BenW

New member
Being a PRK resident, what the hell is this new law we are talking about? Any references?
I don't want to flame anyone, because maybe this problem also falls on the shoulders of gun rights organizations that don't get the word around. BUT -- this is the kind of question that should have been asked and answered way before the elections. Then maybe we wouldn't be stuck with Davis for another 4 years.
 

FiNcH

New member
A few questions.

1.) *** is PRK?
2.) What is this law about. Is it a ban of handguns, or is it more harsh restriction on getting them?
 

redhead

New member
FiNcH: The PRK is "People's Republic of Kalifornia". The law is a more stringent version of the Basic Firearm Safety Certificate. You have to demonstrate safe handling techniques to the dealer before you can take possession of the handgun you are purchasing. There is a certificate (a license, really) that you must have, it costs more than the BFSC, and expires in five years. More hoops to jump through.
 

Baba Louie

New member
Doesn't the new CA law fall neatly into old HCI/Pete Shield's step number 27 (or such) about placing a license(ing) req't on buyers, with the eventual goal to increase it to the point where it costs so much that no one renews it?

Therefore a former licensed law-abiding citizen becomes an "Unlicensed" holder of a gov't regulated object with the result being felonious criminal activity. With a known address, place of work, SSN, etc. Send in the clowns... "Watch it boys, he's armed and dangerous. Pump some CS in there first"

Thus endeth your ability to ever own again?

Or some such?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

And crime will, of course, go down. Or "it will save the life of one child (or politician)".

And we all (figuratively speaking of course) become criminals.

Me officer? I wouldn't touch ice cream if it were illegal. (tongue in cheek)

Adios
 

madkiwi

New member
Baba,

That is why I will not buy any handguns after 12/31. Forget to renew the "license" and become an instant felon? No thank you.

I also am not interested in being in the insane position of proving my ability to safely handle a new firearm (that may be totally foreign to me) without being able to read the manual, and familiarize myself with it unloaded for a while. Catch 22, isn't it?

Last time I talked with someone involved in the rule making process was 6 months ago, but at that stage what was going to be required was still up in the air. According to him the process was not pretty.

madkiwi
 

Airwolf

New member
My comments in bold:

Effective January 1, 2003, replaces the Basic Firearm Safety Certificate (BFSC) Program with the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) Program. To obtain an HSC, an applicant must be at least 18 years of age and pass a written test administered by a DOJ-certified instructor. The DOJ is required to produce HSC instructional materials in English and in Spanish. Once an HSC is issued by a DOJ- certified instructor, it is valid for five years. Test applicants will be subject to a DOJ fee of $15 and a instructor service fee of up to $10, for a total HSC fee not to exceed $25. Prior to January 1, 2003, the maximum BFSC fee is $20 (PC 12800-12808).

New license and more money to the state and another hurtle for prospective gun owners. As some have pointed out, this system is apparently not in place yet.



Effective January 1, 2003, provides that no firearms dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient has a valid HSC or is exempt (pursuant to PC section 12807) from the HSC requirement. The firearms dealer is required to retain a photocopy of the handgun recipient’s HSC as proof of compliance. Any firearms dealer who fails to comply may be removed from the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers and punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in state prison, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000). With specified exceptions, any loan of a handgun requires that the recipient has a valid HSC. Failure to comply is a misdemeanor (PC 12072 (c) (5)(B).

More paperwork requirements, and penalties if done wrong. More liabilities for the FFL in order to make doing business harder.



Effective January 1, 2003, provides that no firearms dealer may deliver a handgun without first requiring the recipient of that handgun to correctly and properly perform a safe handling demonstration with that handgun. The firearms dealer is required to retain an affidavit signed by himself/herself and the handgun recipient as proof of compliance. Failure to comply may result in removal of the firearms dealer from the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers. Persons who are exempt for the HSC requirement are also exempt from the safety handling demonstration requirements (PC 12071(b)(8).

More requirements for the FFL to meet, opening the FFL up for possible legal actions if the buyer does something “unsafe” with the gun after he purchases it.



Effective January 1, 2003, requires each person taking delivery of a firearm from a firearms dealer to provide his/her right thumbprint on the Dealers Record of Sale form (PC 12077).

More paperwork (more potential liability) and more Government intrusion.



Effective January 1, 2003 requires each firearms dealer delivering a handgun to obtain proof of residency from the handgun recipient. Satisfactory proof of residency may include a utility bill from within the three months prior to the delivery, a residential lease, a property deed, military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the DOJ. The firearms dealer is required to retain the residency documentation as proof of compliance. Failure to comply may result in removal of the firearms dealer from the Centralized List of Firearms Dealers (PC 12071 (b)(8) (C).

A possible huge GOTCHA for a lot of people. Roommates, GF/BF living together, adult living with their parents. All may run afoul of this provision if it’s strictly enforced and be unable to purchase a gun after 12/31/02



Effective January 1, 2003, requires all firearms dealers to report all Dealers Record of Sale transactions electronically via computer. Telephone reporting will no longer be an option. The DOJ will provide necessary equipment to firearms dealers for electronic reporting. The firearm recipient’s identification number, name, and date of birth will be obtained by running the recipient’s identification card or driver’s license through a magnetic strip reader. Exceptions will be made for military identification cards (PC 12077).

Even with the previous proof of residence you STILL need a California DL to purchase. That DL will have its mag stripe read for the purpose of registering your gun in Sacramento. Need I say more?


Airwolf again….

Despite all this horse**** I’ll continue to buy after 1/1/03. Why? Because if you don’t they’ve won and we’ve lost. The purpose of these crap laws are not to reduce crime or make the streets safer or save The Children ™ they are to stop residents of the State of California from buying guns. Period.

My $0.02. If you want to support the socialist bastards in Sacramento and elsewhere that would disarm law-abiding citizens then by all means, don’t buy anymore guns after 12/31/02. If you wish to send the opposite message then continue to buy guns until it hurts.
 

jrp

New member
I'm buying come '03 as well. In fact my January gun is already paid for and sitting in the FFLs safe. Come 1/5, I get to attempt jumping through all the new hoops.
 

Sactown

New member
Anyone know how this safe handling crap is supposed to work? Load, unload, clear jam, etc? What if you're not familiar with that type of firearm? Seems like they put the cart before the horse. "I can't sell you a that handgun until you show me you know how to safely operate one." Let's say I'm looking at Benelli MP95, without owning the firearm how am I suppose to figure out how it works? It's not like my revolver or my .45's. Is the sales person gonna show me how it works and then I gotta parrot him/her? I guess I will find this out next year.
 
Top