Ca Law

[lincoln1]

the law is stricter here than in most states, as most know. in addition to the ban on high capacity mags (over 10 rounds) our law says we cannot have semi-automatic, centerfire rifles with detachable mags PLUS the conditions a-f.
a)pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously under the action of the weapon.
b)thumbhole stock
c)folding or telescoping stock
d)grenade launcher/flare launcher
e)flash suppressor
f)forward pistol grip

the CALIF assault weapon law continues that NO semi-automatic Pistols may have a 2nd handgrip. that means no forward grip whatsoever but certainly is clear that the intention is different than that for the semi-automatic rifle which says no forward pistol grip.

the rifle law is pretty clear. we know what a), b), c) look like, and know if the rifle has a d) grenade launcher function. e) was addressed by replacing the flash suppressor with a muzzle brake. but what is unclear is what is the definition of a "forward pistol grip"? i get the image of the old "tommy gun" in black & white movies, but when i shop for real life products there are plenty of gadgets to grab onto that mount forward and under like a bipod, a flashlight, or laser that aren't shaped like a pistol grip - but may include some sort of area which functions as a grab-handle. .

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

any lawful californians who understand the Bill of Rights including the 1st & 2nd amendments, have any opinins?

I have posted this question in a couple other forums - sorry if you see a duplicate.

 

[KenpoProfessor]

Go to www.calguns.net it'll answer all your questions.

If you haven't noticed, there is no 2nd amendment clause in the CA constitution, unlike most other states. This allows the state to do whatever it feels, even though federally unconstitutional. The 9th circuit is the appeals court for the state, and they are as loony as a tune.

BTW, notice my location LOL.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[zoomie]

forum etiquette

I have posted this question in a couple other forums - sorry if you see a duplicate.

:barf: Next time, pick the single forum that fits the best (Legal & Political seems to work) and go with that one. It's poor form (and just plain obnoxious) to post three identical threads back-to-back-to-back.

 

[lincoln1]

i guess you mention your location meaning lucky you or maybe lucky me in the future. i can make my residence where it suits.

i have been through the site and still cannot find anything which defines a forward grip vs a forward pistol grip, as it is clear that the law makes separates the two. as i said, a forward grip could be a mounted flashlight with a handle but that wouldn't be a forward pistol grip.

i did see that the definition of a pistol grip where the action needs to be above it and it made mention of it being adjacent to the trigger group, regardless if "the action" was considered part of the barrel or trigger, but that doesn't address the forward mounted one.

the only other reference was the fed bill introduced 7/23/07, HR1020, which makes a forward grip part of the definition of an assault weapon, without saying what that really means.

but that has no

 

[lincoln1]

zoomie,
absolutely right about bad form. but i'd am trying to reach out to someone who has a little advice rather than have trouble w/ LE tomorrow at the range because of an extending, but not folding, bipod - that has grip-like mount to the forward lower pic-rail. i can imagine at this hour someone may look at one forum and shut down as it is late...sorry if i offended you...

 

[zoomie]

Here's your answer from your Attorney General as of 2000.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

978.20 (c) - Forward Pistol Grip
The proposed definition originally noticed to the public defined a forward pistol grip as “any protrusion in front of the trigger that is designed or intended to grasp and control the firearm.” As a result of public comment during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000), the Department determined the term “any protrusion” appeared to lack clarity in that it could include many shooting accessories or parts of the firearm that may be used to grasp and control the firearm, but could not be considered forward pistol grips, such as sling swivels, bipods and monopods, palm rests, etc. The definition was therefore revised by replacing “any protrusion” with “a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp.” The Department believes that the concept of a “pistol style grasp” is generally understood by persons affected by the regulations. The revised definition: “forward pistol grip means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger” was then noticed to the public during the first 15-day comment period (May 10 through May 30, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the first 15-day comment period that warranted additional revisions to the definition.

978.20 (e) - Pistol Grip that Protrudes Conspicuously Beneath the Action of the Weapon
This term was originally defined as “any component that allows for the grasp, control, and fire of the firearm where the portion grasped is located beneath an imaginary line drawn parallel to the barrel that runs through the top of the exposed trigger” and noticed during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). This definition was subject to broad interpretation primarily due to the wording “any component.” The definition was accordingly initially revised by replacing “any component” with “a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp.” The Department believes that the concept of a “pistol style grasp” is generally understood by persons affected by the regulations. This revision: “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp below the top of the exposed trigger” was noticed to the public during the first 15-day notice period (May 10 through May 30, 2000). Subsequent comments resulted in additional modifications. To further clarify the criteria that establishes a “pistol style grasp” and its relationship to a grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, the condition “in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was added to the definition. The revision also reflects a change from “top of the exposed trigger” to “top of the exposed portion of the trigger” because as one contributor pointed out, the former would mean the upper portion of a trigger, a part of which is exposed, with the balance hidden from view in the receiver of the firearm. The final revised definition: “Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing” was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the second 15-day comment period that warranted additional revisions to the definition.

 

[KenpoProfessor]

Lincoln1, if you are unsure if your rifle is legal, don't bring it out, bottom line. I have given you a resource to investigate and you haven't. If you get popped because some ultra diligent LEO decides that what you have is a forward grip, don't come crying, best to keep it home until you know for sure, especially where you're at up north, that is the heart of where the anti-gun sentiment resides.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde