Buying AR15 (part 2) Stepping up the budget a bit

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MurBob

New member
Ok folks,
First, I'd like to thank all those who took time out of their lives to post in my other thread.. I learned a lot, and I mean a lot! Thank you so much, especially to those who made those multi-paragraph lengthy postings that taught me so much that I didn't know before.

So without getting into a lengthy discussion about my personal characteristics, I will say that I'm a firm believer in paying for quality..

So with that in mind, I'm considering stepping up the budget a bit and I'm now looking at Daniel Defence and LWRC and am open to other suggestions.

Specifically, the LWRC models.. but I'm not looking at their $2500 units, more like the ones priced in the $1500 to $1600 range.
I like this one: ICDIR5B16ML

I think I'm a big fan of cold hammered barrels and free floating hand guards.

Some have asked what kind of purpose I need.. Well, I want to be able to rapid fire clip after clip without worrying about my barrel being damaged, warping, or wearing out due to heat.

I don't want a gun to go plinking.. I don't need racing stripes, fancy wheels or loud sound systems.. I want the kind of gun YOU would want in a real life battle against hungry people who want your food.. I think that says "Rugged, dependable, and accurate"

The kind of weapon your life depends on.... Not the kind of weapon with pretty colors, led lighting, or leather reclining seats that have no true useful or functional purpose. (Ok. leather reclining seats are nice!)

Your thoughts?
 
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RoughDivider

New member
Well I'd trust my life to my $600 PSA no problem, govt profile barrel is good for heat. Get something chromelined I suppose, I have a DD chromlined 10.3" barrel I love. So I'm going to vote for them. Heaviest profile I can find if you're that worried about dumping magazines.
 
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marine6680

New member
BCM... A reputation for rugged rifles. Their BFH (hammer forged) barrels are very good, I have one that shoots 1moa with quality ammo, and the another of their barrels I own shoots 1.5moa with good ammo.

You can buy one complete for $1500 give or take model dependent. Or you can buy a complete lower and upper assembly separately, and get a rifle for $1100 on up depending on the options you get on the upper.

If you look at the pic I posted on your other thread, the middle left rifle is a BCM.

Do a google search for "filthy 14" and read the article... It's a testament to the BCM rifle quality as well as the lube they use, which I also recommend.


Daniel Defense are very good rifles, they may be arguably better than BCM based on some minor points, but will likely cost a little more. I want one, but not desperately, as I really like my BCMs.


LWRC... They are good rifles, but I do not think they are worth the price premium over something like a BCM or DD... Also, piston ARs are overrated... see filthy 14 above...

Unless I am going for some high end light weight wiz bang, I think that the cost to quality ratio hits its peak around $1500-1800... especially when rifles rugged enough to go to a war zone with, can be had for less than $800...


The Aero Precision stuff is good to go I think, and at a low cost. I would feel comfortable with one under hard use, especially after I put a few hundred rounds through it to make sure it's all good.

Same with a premium PSA with FN barrel...

Something like a DD and BCM I wouldn't have much pause in taking one straight from the box and into a hard use scenario, as they have very high quality and QC.
 
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DubC-Hicks

New member
Palmetto Premium line with FN cold hammer forged barrel if you want best bang for your buck under $1000. Leaves you spending money for goodies. I've had 3 uppers from PSA with the FN barrels and have been more than pleased. I feel they are equals to my old BCM.

BCM with the BFH barrel if you want to spend over $1000 and pretty much have the best of the best. Not saying its 1.5x or 2x better than the PSA, but they're known for their quality, reliability, and customer service.
 
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Targa

New member
You seem convinced that AR quality costs more than a grand, or at least for your peace of mind which is fine, your money. Either the LWRC or DD will serve you well and it looks like you really like the LWRC, my opinion is to get it.
 
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rickyrick

New member
My mantra when dealing with gun purchases has been this:
Get the one you want and don't settle. If you settle, you may not be happy with it.
 
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marine6680

New member
Yeah, generally I agree with "don't settle "...

But it really depends on the reasoning behind the desire for a particular rifle.

If you get it because it's expensive and looks fancy... and later find out it's not really any better than another brand that cost less... Either you have to admit to getting suckered in by a name, or protect the ego somehow.

If you skip out on a gun you want due to momentary concerns, that definitely can come into play.


But I believe in going into a purchase informed... Knowing as much as possible about the pros and cons of the various potential purchases, and weighing them to make a decision.


My PSA Premium with CHF barrel is great... It is my go to rifle at the moment, as it is sitting loaded and ready as I type this.

I trust it to work when I need it to. I do not need another rifle to alleviate any lingering doubts of quality...

But I do own BCM as well, but I got them more as a matter of pride than due to feeling they were vastly superior.

Is the BCM a better rifle than my PSA... Yes... But the gap isn't as large as the price difference would suggest, it's actually somewhat close on the whole. The BCM is just a bit better put together, just a bit nicer in fit and finish... but it's not a big difference, and it's not in performance where the difference lies.
 
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rickyrick

New member
Totally agree, I have a PSA with the FN barrel and it's great. I totally recommend it as meeting his requirements.
He may want a showpiece.

Some people want a 1911 and some people want a Kimber.
 
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marine6680

New member
Realized that the LWRC has some proprietary parts, especially in the bolt...

Meaning replacement parts are not going to be as easy to get. You can't just order a generic AR extractor and spring for an LWRC.
 
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MurBob

New member
I'm going to assimilate some of this information...

As I'm learning what I want, here is what I have so far:

I do not want a "pencil" barrel.. but I don't think a heavy barrel for a girl would be good either.. So what is the middle of the road? Is that called the Mil-spec or medium duty?
I want a hammer forged chrome lined barrel 16 inches long.
A free floating hand guard
I want iron sites that won't be in my way when I'm not using them. (I plan to mount an Aimpoint Pro to it)
I want the trigger guard with the larger loop to allow a gloved finger.
I want a chrome lined bolt assembly (did I get that right?)

I "think" I want a mid length gas system and a barrel with a threaded flash suppressor.

Ok, so if I said anything stupid, please let me know. What would you folks recommend?
From what I'm reading, the FN barrel is high quality stuff... Their complete uppers are also $1000 on their own from what I can tell.
 
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marine6680

New member
FN makes barrels for a lot of other people. The PSA premium and CHF premium barrels are made by FN.

There is speculation that BCM gets their CHF barrels from FN.

DD does their CHF in house.

CHF is nice but not necessary for a good barrel, but I do find them to be more consistent in quality on the whole.

Any proper milspec bolt carrier group will be chrome lined inside the carrier and has key... it's usually cheap budget BCGs that are not. The cheaper budget guns tend to be this way.

PSA sources their BCGs from Toolcraft if I remember properly, and they are very good quality, highly recommended, their premium version has all the testing done to them. Their non premium may not get all the testing but are made to the same standard... less cost as the testing is not cheap.

I do not recommend BCGs that are completely covered in fancy coatings... I have had issues more than once with them. The standard BCG works well.


Unless you plan on doing a lot of mag dumps, a quality lightweight barrel will not be an issue.

The government profile is a bit middle ground, but several companies make an "enhanced" lightweight barrel, that try's to retain strength while reducing some weight. Different companies call it different names ELW, S2W, Etc...

Mid length gas is a good way to go...

Many companies offer the enhanced trigger guards as stock, but they are not hard to swap out if you have the right sized punch... just keep the receiver supported when doing the work. The little tabs the pin goes into are thin, and need support when installing the part, or they can break.
 
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Dragline45

New member
I highly recommend BCM, I only own two rifles but they are the only uppers I will buy. In my opinion Daniel Defense and BCM are pretty much equal in their quality, but I have a slight preference for BCM. Their quality is top notch, and they pride themselves on quality control which is rare these days. They also offer just about every barrel length/gas system combo you could want. Do a bit of research and you will find they are highly regarded for their quality and performance.

My recommendation is a BCM mid-length gas system with a 14.5" BFH barrel, which is their hammer forged barrel. The downside is that your muzzle device has to be pinned in place per NFA regulations to bring it up to the required 16". This saves you an inch in barrel length over a 16" barrel because once you put a muzzle device on the 16" barrel, the total length is now at least 17". If you don't care about that extra inch in length than just go with the 16" barrel, but my 14.5" BCM middy is a very handy rifle.

You mentioned you are looking for a free float rail, I can recommend the BCM KMR which is the thinnest free float rail on the market. I have a 15" KMR Alpha on my 20" rifle, the Alpha is aluminum and weighs a bit more than the lightweight but costs a whole lot less.
 
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marine6680

New member
I'm not sure they still make the original KMR, just the Alpha version I think.

It was light, but being a magnesium alloy, it required an epoxy coat paint (or similar) rather than anodizing.

I do like my KMR alpha handguards, slim and smooth in the hand, very comfortable.

I think I would go with a 16in, simply because you only increase length an inch over the 14.5, without the hassle of a permanently attached flash hider.
 
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MurBob

New member
UPDATE:

Well, I can't claim I won't change my mind, but it would seem that after reading all your folks comments here (Thank you very much by the way!), I've decided I'm just going to go buy a Colt 6920..

This is the one I like most..
http://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...30-1rd-prod89692.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=colt

I just wish it was solid black.. I can't seem to find a "stocked" rifle that comes with the exact stuff I want.. The Colt I linked to only lacks the free floating hand guard... Can it be added later??

What I do like about the Colt..
1. If its good enough for our soldiers, its probably good enough for me right?
2. Its a Colt... well known brand, standard parts.
3. It comes with the front grip which I really wanted my wife to have.
4. It has the permanently mounted front sight post AND the rear flip up sight.
5. It has the enhanced trigger guard for winter gloves.. (Our winters are cold here)
6. It has the mil-spec medium barrel and bolt.

What I don't like:
1. The fancy colors.. not really a big deal.
2. The hand guard.. I wish it had the rail to mount stuff on.


So unless I change my mind like a fickle school girl in the near future, I would like to express my appreciation for all who have replied to my threads and my stupid questions. You folks are an invaluable resource.. you lack financial incentive to lie or sell, you're all very knowledgeable, and as a group, the experience that accompanies that knowledge is daunting.

Thank you for all your help....
 
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Fishbed77

New member
You will be served well by a Colt 6920.

Just be sure to buy magazines and not clips.

5.56mm stripper clips do exist, but they are for loading AR-15 magazines, not for feeding an AR-15:

https://gunandsurplus.com/Stripper-Clips/5.56-.223-Stripper-Clips-Factory-New-150-Count

What I don't like:
1. The fancy colors.. not really a big deal.
2. The hand guard.. I wish it had the rail to mount stuff on.
Click to expand...

Colt is constantly offering different 6920 versions. There have been versions with black Magpul furniture, as well as versions with the KAC drop-in quad rail. They are constantly changing up production runs, so the variants available are always changing.

You may be best served by one of the 6920 OEM versions that allows you to just install the furniture you want:

https://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/colt/col-ar-oem1-556-16.1-no-frn-30/
 
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