Buying a used Muzzleloader?? ALWAYS check the bore, here's why

[deerslayer303]

So I got the CVA Plainsman that I bought on Gunbroker in this morning. I looked it over. Its in pretty good shape. Took out its wooden ram rod and dropped it down the barrel. I got a low toned THUD, Not the TINK you expect to hear from the brass end on the ram rod hitting STEEL AWWW CRAP! I knew what it meant as soon as I heard it. SO I took my other CVA Plainsman out of the cabinet to compare. The first pic you will see are two IDENTICAL CVA Rifles side by side. Both of their ram rods are EXACTLY the same length. The rifle on the left is not loaded the rifle on the right IS. The second pic you will see the rifle on the right has my range rod down the bore. Now the line you see scribed in it is marked (even with the muzzle) FOR a LOADED Plainsman rifle at 70grs REAL FFg BLACK POWDER, .010" Patch and a .490 Ball. See how much higher the scribed mark is above the muzzle. SO I have no Idea what the charge is or even if it is a double ball. NEVER FIRE AN UNKNOWN LOAD OUT OF A MUZZLE LOADER NEVER EVER EVER EVER!!! Looking down the bore with a bore light I can see its a patched round ball down there. Now I will try to pull this ball, if that don't work I will use a CO2 Discharger. I hope this post will help put some fat on the head of some newbie to FRONT STUFFING!! I'm no expert but the guys here have trained me well.

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[wogpotter]

It came with free ammo!
Guessing about 95 grains worth.

 

[Doyle]

That reminds me of the first inline I bought. It was a CVA bolt-action ML (far obsolete these days). I bought it from a guy in Ohio off one of the forums I'm on. Of course being a muzzleloader, it came straight to me without going through a FFL.

When I opened the box, I was tempted to just toss a cap on it to make sure it went bang. Fortunately, good sense prevailed and I took the time to pull the breech. I'm glad I did. It was loaded with a Powerbelt bullet and 2 Pyrodex pellets. I just never envisioned that some idiot would mail a loaded firearm.

 

[Pahoo]

Horns and flasks, come loaded as well !!!

ALWAYS check the bore, here's why

Great call and post !!!
I have a nice collection of horns and flasks. Hard to believe but most of them have been mailed, with powder. I'm not sure how to head this up. One seller was a widow and said that her husband had obviously left it that way and she was not comfortable with unloading them. Not a problem for me but now have to define what the propellant is and it's granulation. I then give the stuff away to a buddy and he uses it, in his cannons. .....

Making this primary check, is listed in the NMLRA list of safety items. In Iowa and not sure about the other states, an un-primed M/L, is considered unloaded. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[4V50 Gary]

Neat bonus. A loaded gun. I'd pull it. I wouldn't trust the powder.

 

[bedbugbilly]

Let me get this straight . . . you think it's loaded so you look down the barrel with a bore light and you can see the patch? :roll eyes: I understand that you didn't have it capped, etc. but that sort of goes against everything I've ever been taught about firearms . . . just saying!

Not really that uncommon. I've found may originals loaded over the years as well. Kind of reminds me to the rifle the kid had next to me down on the line at Friendship one time. We were given the go ahead by the RO to snap caps. He capped his, pointed it at the ground and then "boom". Sort of shook everybody up including the RO. All I heard the kid say . . . and with a sheepish look on his face . . "I guess I didn't unload it when I got done deer hunting last year". Hmmm . . . REALLY? I didn't have to chew him a "second one" . . the RO was very capable of doing the job and then some.

Sorry . . . but safety comes first. If it was me, I'd be contacting the seller and reaming him a "second one" as well. You might also remind him it's not legal to ship a loaded gun (even if it is considered an antique) with a hazarous material in it (gunpowder) - no different than shipping a loaded cartridge handgun or rifle. As Forrest Gump's Mama always said . . . "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid."

 

[deerslayer303]

Let me get this straight . . . you think it's loaded so you look down the barrel with a bore light and you can see the patch? :roll eyes: I understand that you didn't have it capped, etc. but that sort of goes against everything I've ever been taught about firearms . . . just saying!

Yeah you're right, I did. I HAD to know. No not the safest way by any means whatsoever. I had to know it was a ball down there and not something else that would render the barrel useless. At least that was my train of thought. I don't mind the tongue lashing. Heck I need it every now and then.

 

[deerslayer303]

I have emailed the seller TWICE today with no Reply, He will get a Negative Feedback and I will see if I can drop GB a line or two about the situation.

 

[Captchee]

Yep always a good thing to check .
More a few times I have found them to be loaded .
That includes purchases at guns shows , from e-bay , gun broker , the old NRA listings and even muzzle loading ONLY guns shows .

As to t the guns being loaded . .
As was stated , in a lot of states its not considered loaded unless the gun is caped or primed .
So while there may not be an issue with shipping it that way , It just might be an issue because powder was shipped without being declared .

While looking down the bore may not have been kosher in terms of firearms safety. If you checked the lock , insured that there wasn’t a cap or primed paned . I wonder just how looking down the bore would be any different then looking in a can of powder to see if there was anything in there ?
I wouldn’t beat yourself up to much about it . On the bright side , at least you didn’t cap it and try to fire the load out without any idea as to what type of load was down there .
Read that recommended more then a few times .

You also were smart enough to check for a load . Thus I willing to bet you were smart enough to ensure their was not cap on the nipple or stuck in the hammer cup .
Your still smarter then the folks who when discussing a stuck load , recommend pulling a breech plug and if the plug is stuck , just use little heat without any other clarifications ……
Read that recommended more then a few times as well .

But enough of that .
Pull your load and check the bore .
Try a puller , if that doesn’t work go to Co2 if that doesn’t budge it then I would use grease gun to dislodge the load and start it moving. Once it started to move , compressed are will then carry it out of the bore .
Depending on how long the load was left , the powder area may not be the biggest issue
The bigger problem I find with a PRB load is that the are where the ball and patch sets , often corrodes rather quickly if anything other then a greased patch was used .
The powder area may have some issues if its an old load of synthetic powder or a load of Black powder which was not set to a clean bore . IE the gun was shot , re loaded and set aside .
Hopefully that wasn’t the case .

But anyway . Yep I get a lot of BP guns in that are loaded . One has to always check

 

[Pahoo]

A matter of trust ???

Now I will try to pull this ball, if that don't work I will use a CO2 Discharger.

During our classes, I ask the students to take my word, that the M/L that I'm holding, is unloaded; Trust Me !!!
Thankfully, most do not and then proceed to "Prove it". I go through a combination of checks, while limiting my exposure to the bore. I also do this check in the preliminary steps for loading.

I also teach pulling a dry-ball to new instructors, using the screw-jag and range rod. Both PRB and Sabots will pull fairly easy. Then one day, I was forced to remove a stuck ramrod and it would not budge. I poured some TC-#13 and let it soak for an hour. Then used the CO2 discharger and out she flew. In practice, I always go to my Co2 as it takes me away from the muzzle. ..

Be Safe !!!

 

[Hawg]

I'm safety conscious but not to the point of being anal about it. I would have no problem looking down the bore of a muzzleloader provided it wasn't capped. How else are you going to check bore condition?

 

[swathdiver]

The proper term is charged. The gun was not loaded as in, it could not fire without a percussion cap or priming powder (well sort of) in the case of a flinter.

A cap and ball revolver with powder and ball in its chambers is not considered "loaded" until caps are placed on the cones. It is however, "charged".

Folks from times past, even a generation or two ago thought it perfectly normal to keep their rifles and pistols this way. Folks of today though...

 

[FrankenMauser]

One of my brothers (Crankylove here) bought a muzzle stuffer from a friend a few years ago.
He immediately took it over to another brother's house, Cornbush, since Cornbush and I have more experience with them.

The first thing Cornbush did was hold the ramrod up next to the barrel and then drop it down the bore.
...Dull thud, and 3 inches too much ramrod sticking out of the muzzle...

It turned out to be a Hornady Great Plains bullet sitting on top of a hefty charge of black powder substitute. (I don't remember which.)

And the seller swore it was "empty".

 

[Captchee]

it could not fire without a percussion cap or priming powder (well sort of) in the case of a flinter.

This is not completely true in that a flintlock can and often will fire without a prime in the pan .
Also the term “to Charge “ comes from the military loading drill .
The soldier carried charges . Each charge made a complete load and loading started with bring the lock to full cock and priming the lock "to charge the pam ". Then and only then would the rest of the charge be loaded to the barrel .

So what they were doing is placing and then ramming a charge with projectile , down the bore , while the lock was cock and primed .
The only way to insure a flintlock will not go off while there is a charge in the bore is to have the Battery / frizzen open

 

[birdshot]

I went through this just last week after buying a .36 rifle from a pawn shop. I knew it was loaded when i brought it home. I was not able to get the puller screw tap into the ball, so ended up removing the breech plug. I was able to drive the "load out the breech. I got a patch, ball, a wad of saturated pyrodex, a brush, a ball, and a patch retriever. The good news is the patch retriever is salvageable, and the balls miked out at .372 so i won't need to slug the barrel. The bad news was since I had the gun apart I am now in the process of refinishing the stock, and browning the metal.

 

[deerslayer303]

How do you guys remove the hooked breech plug on a side lock? I didn't think you could

 

[Hawg]

How do you guys remove the hooked breech plug on a side lock? I didn't think you could

With a vise and a wrench that fits the barrel flats and maybe a little heat. It is not recommended or advisable to do so.

 

[wogpotter]

I'm curious. Why not just use the ramrod as a gauge by measuring from the touch hole/cap nipple to the muzzle & then slide the rod in to check for schtuff in the breech?

What's the big issue?

 

[riflemen]

I check every gun to be loaded even if I just unloaded it, sometimes I will check 5 or 6 times, Ill bet 20% of the wear on my slides is from me check to make sure the gun is not loaded..

I am super careful and almost shot myself before, I was shooting one of my bullseye 1911's, and the sight came loose, so I dropped the mag out, and cycles it to drop the loaded round, I tighten the sight and go to put my sightmark boresighter in the barrel to recheck it, there was a bullet in it, I was over there, tightening the sight, fiddling around with this thing paying no attention to where it was pointed and the hammer was back with a round in the chamber!!! I remember getting a sick to my stomach feeling and not shooting anymore that day..

There is no such thing as being too careful, a friend of mine shot himself through his muffin top, lol... Put the gun under his arm, to hold it and free up his hands to reload a mag, went to pull it out to reload it {he thought it was empty} and it shot him through his over the belt chub, luckily he was home that night, but I got to see it happen and after brought him some raspberry muffins while he was recovering, it looked PAINFUL!!! It was a semi wadcutter in a .38 super 1911...

He says what is more painful is how he will never live down us teasing him about his muffin top injury...

 

[Pahoo]

Not worth the effort !!!

With a vise and a wrench that fits the barrel flats and maybe a little heat. It is not recommended or advisable to do so.

Amen to that and the last one I did, did not go well. I'm thankful it was mine. It goes more smoothly if it's a brand new SideLock and you apply some anti-seize but for the most part, not worth the effort or really necessary. ....

Be Safe !!!