Bushmaster Varminter or Rock River Varmint model

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Barn Dog

New member
I am new to ARs and am looking at the the following two rifles:

Bushmaster "Varminter":
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/lr-24v.asp

Rock River "Varmint" model:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/rra_varmint.htm

I'm looking for good accuracy from a stock gun, no desire to build and can't spend more than $950. I know these do not have chrome lined bores but that does not matter to me for the amount that I shoot. My understanding from the companies is that both can safely shoot 5.66 mil spec ammo and .223, so no problem with ammo cost. I also don't do any CQB stuff or competition - I'm just a weekend paper shooter who wants something as accurate as possible out of the box.

Pluses/minuses/differences so far as I know or perceive: BM barrel is 4150 steel vs 4140 for the RR. The BM costs a little more. RR might have a slightly better finish. Twist rates are slightly different, 1:9 for BM and 1:8 for RR. BM also throws in mini-risers and a hard case, not a big deal but a nice touch. BM barrel is fluted, looks cool and would help with heat dissipation.

For those of you that may own one or the other (or both), could you tell me of your likes and dislikes on these or which one you think is the better of the two, disregarding cost? Like most, I don't want to make a $1K mistake. Your opinions & input are appreciated. Regards, Barn.
 
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Steve Smith

New member
I have plenty of experience with both. Neither would be a mistake, and I would say that both are equal in accuracy potential.

The only pros/cons: RRA will be a bit cheaper. Bushy will have a lifetime warrantee (or a year?) Doubtful that you will need it though.
 
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Barn Dog

New member
Thanks Steve. I called Bushmaster on the warranty, it is one year but the guy I talked with said they work with you if they can depending on what the problem might be.

The Bushmaster Varminter does cost more and now that I have looked a little more at their website, I also see a "V" Match with a 20" barrel that looks interesting and is less money. Might not be as accurate as the Varminter but it does have some nice features. Thanks again. Barn.
 
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2minkey

New member
i would grab a rock river NM lower from pete in NH on the ar15.com equipment exchange. 300 bucks and a fantastic two stage trigger.

then i would get a RR varmint upper from donnie at sableco.net for $474.

so you're looking at ~$825 if your FFL isn't greedy.
 
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Rovert

New member
I can't speak thoroughly about RR's specs, but Bushmaster is known for being closest to MilSpec, and using the highest quality components, and more expensive production methods, than most.

What I can talk intelligently about is their customer service. Absolutely superior. They're great. However, I'm sure that either will serve you well. I hear great things about RRA, but I'm kind of a Bushmaster man... if it were my money, I'd sink the extra few bucks, and not look back.
 
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Bullzye

New member
What was the price given to you on the Bushmaster?? Here in Va you can have em for about $850.00 plus tax.
 
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Barn Dog

New member
Best price by far in my area is $950. I don't have a problem with a lower price if someone knows where I can get one shipped to the FFL I do business with.

The only other thing that concerns me now is that I called Bushmaster back and the guy I spoke with said the Varminter should not be shot with 5.56 Nato due to the .223 chamber. I'm now a bit confused because I have seen other threads on the AR15.com board stating Bushmaster told them in writing that it was OK to shoot 5.56 in that rifle due to the extended length of the chamber/throat area although it is published as .223 spec.

So now I got a Bushmaster rep telling me not to shoot 5.56 and emails from Bushmaster saying its OK. In addition, someone else stated the owners manual says use .223 only but their catalog lists the rifle as being chambered for 5.56 and .223. Sounds like Bushmaster needs to call a staff meeting and get their story straight with their manuals, catalogs, customer service and tech people. As it stands, I'm still not sure if it is safe to run 5.56 through a Varminter. Anyone else know this for sure??
 
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GLOCKT

New member
My AK/shorty carbine,and 24"V-match fluted barrel have stamped on the barrel 5.56 NATO on them.
I believe Bushmasters handle 5.56 thru all model barrels.
The catalog also states 5.56 on every model.So 5.56 looks to be a acceptable round.
1/9 twist rates are the standard Bushmaster twists.You can shorten the twists upon special request.The shorter the twist the heavier the bullet it will take.The 1/9 is good for civilan purposes.I think the FAQ on Bushmaster says up to 72gr bullets.
Competitive shooters go heavier and shorter twists.
 
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uglygun

New member
I wouldn't worry about shooting 5.56x45mm in the Bushy Varminter too much, just don't use the really poor grade stuff like the Guat. or Malaysian ammo or really crappy stuff like Wolf.


I do believe Bushmaster when they state that they are using a 223Rem. chamber on the Varminter, I know it's not a chrome lined barrel. They probably FINALLY saw the light and realized that it was stupid for them to offer a DCM barrel and not to offer a longer varminter/target barrel as well. In their inventory only the Varminter and the DCM barrels will likely be the ones using non-chromed barrels and coming with 223Rem spec chambers instead of 5.56x45mm spec chambers.


I've got a JP Enterprises AR15 and it's 223Rem chamber digests most of the better quality surplus ammos like PMP or PMC if I find myself having to use it. Then any of the commercial makers like Winchester USA white box, UMC 55grn, and IMI surplus has fired just fine from it as well.


I doubt that the Bushmaster Varminter chamber is any "tighter" than my JP Enterprises chamber. After you get your rifle, it's always wise to try a variety of ammo in it to see what is both most accurate and most reliable.


After my experiences with Federal brand ammo I refuse to fire that junk in any of my AR15s, Federal is notorious for having loose primer pockets and dislodging it's primers into all sorts of troublesome areas of the AR15 action. I've had it happen with every line of the Federal ammo through 3 different AR15s and in an AR10, others hate it just as much as I do. I leave it for the bolt action shooters.
 
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King

New member
My Bushmaster XM15-E25 will shoot the 5.56 as well as the .223 according to the stamping on the lower. I think it to be true of all or most of the Bushmaster AR's.
 
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Barn Dog

New member
Thanks quickad, non-subscriber cost for a back issue at Gun-Test is $10 according to their website. I'm going to order it Monday and see what they have to say. I have time, gotta sell a couple of other rifles before I can get this one anyway.

I also called Rock River to confirm, they stated no problem at all with 5.56 Nato in their "Wylde" chamber. Will decide after getting the Gun-Test mag.
 
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armabill

New member
2minkey, that's exactly what I did. And is the upper ever a tight fit. I was looking at the Bushmaster Varminter but I like having the weaver type gas block. So I went with RRA.

I do have a Bushmaster M4 A3 and that rocks. Either one is a winner and you can't go wrong.
 
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Barn Dog

New member
For those who may be interested, I e-mailed Bushmaster directly about the ammo question (using .233 only vs 5.56) and got this reply:

Quote: Our barrels are chambered in 5.56mm which is basically the same as .223 caliber in the chamber area but has a longer leade or throat. The DCM/CMP and Varminter rifles have a tighter SAAMI spec headspace from the chamber shoulder to the bolt face while the throat has a leade for 5.56mm ammunition. 5.56mm and .223 ammunition can be used.

So............. it sounds like it's perfectly safe to shoot the 5.56 mil surp out of the Varminter and their DCM/CMP model without having to worry about pressure problems & having something crack or blow up. Regards, Barn.
 
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