Bush to Propose Gun Control Laws

TheBluesMan

Moderator Emeritus
The complete transcript of the White House Press Briefing from February 6 can be found here: http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0206-129.html

I have edited the parts that have nothing to do with lawful firearm owner control laws with a <snip>

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following is a transcript of a White House Press Briefing today by Ari Fleischer: 12:08 p.m. EST

The James S. Brady Briefing Room

<snip>

Q The nation witnessed another workplace violence shooting yesterday. And when President Clinton was here, he often used workplace shootings as a means of delivering another message to Capitol Hill about gun control.

I know the President doesn't agree with what President Clinton said, but we have an incident here where someone who had been convicted of a crime gained access to weapons. Does the President have anything general to say about this shooting, or anything that informs him or the Justice Department about how to proceed on the issue of guns and crime?

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, that whole issue is one on which the President, as you know, has spoken out in favor of -- for example, and this doesn't immediately address the shooting, which unfortunately -- too often with these laws, there are people who are going to break laws, and we cannot stop that in all cases. But what the President has proposed is to have safety locks, mandatory sales of safety locks with hand guns. In Texas, he proposed raising the age at which a youth could gain access to a handgun from 18 to 21.

Q Is he going to propose legislation like that?

MR. FLEISCHER: Yes.

Q It's been holed up for one year in Hatch's committee for safety locks for children.

MR. FLEISCHER: The President, during the course of the campaign, talked about the safety locks should be national policy as well.

Q He is going to propose a gun control law?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's what he campaigned on, that's what he will do.

Q What about accelerating programs such as the program that many are familiar in Richmond, which used the U.S. Attorneys, who are very vigorous in enforcing federal gun laws? Perhaps in a case like this, in Chicago that may have had some effect, perhaps not. The jurisdictional differences might have interfered. How about stepping up things such as that?

MR. FLEISCHER: Let me refer you to -- there were a series of commitments the President made during the course of the campaign on gun safety and on gun programs. But the President -- let me also advise you that the President does believe one of the answers is in tougher enforcement of the current laws, to make certain that the laws that are on the books are enforced, which will be a role of the Attorney General. We believe that especially in school zones and people who bring guns into schools -- there are federal laws prohibiting that, and we can step up enforcement of those laws.

Scott, is there anything else that the President proposed to do?

MR. McCLELLAN: It also rises to what he's talked about, about changing our culture and -- responsibility.

<snip>

MR. FLEISCHER: On the gun question, I do have -- let me walk people through the President's proposals during the campaign on that. We are to establish Project Century, which is a federal/state partnership to provide funding for safe school task forces; Project Child Safe, which is a $75 million a year program for five years, matching funds with a goal of providing free trigger locks for every handgun owner in America, stronger enforcement of existing gun laws and providing funding for aggressive law enforcement programs, such as Project Exile.

Support automatic detention for juveniles who commit crimes with guns. Support a ban for life on serious juvenile offenders from ever purchasing or carrying a gun.


Q Has he got a commitment from Hatch to --

MR. FLEISCHER: One second. Support increasing the minimum age for possession of a handgun from 18 to 21, and support an assault weapon ban for juveniles. Support instant background checks. And the President would also ban importation of high-capacity ammunition clips, and close the gun show loophole

Q Is he aware that Hatch sat on a bill for one year and wouldn't let it come to a vote on the floor?

MR. FLEISCHER: President Bush has been in office now for approximately just over two weeks.

Q He doesn't have to be in office. He could have known that like anyone else in America.

MR. FLEISCHER: This will be another one of our agenda items that we are going to work with the Congress on.

Q Ari, on trigger locks, that's voluntary and not mandatory; is that right?

MR. FLEISCHER: The sale would be mandatory. The use, you cannot go into people's homes and say, "Where is your trigger lock? You must put that on." You can only hope that parents and others will see fit to do so.

Q But if you bought a handgun, you would have to buy a trigger lock at the time of purchasing the gun?

MR. FLEISCHER: That would be provided with the sale of the gun.

Q What about guns you already own?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's why the President is setting up a program to provide free trigger locks for those who need them. He set up that program in Texas. And it would be for all existing handgun owners. The President would set up a program to do that nationally.


Well, I guess I’ll be joining the Libertarian Party now... If this is how the Republicans treat the lawful gun owners who got GWB elected, then I'll have no part of them in the future. :(
 

scud

New member
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I fear the days of voting this situation away are long since over.
 

David Scott

New member
Gee, free Federal trigger locks? If you want to see that program go bust in a hurry, just drop into 8 or 10 gun shops every weekend and ask for your free trigger lock. When you have a 55 gallon drum full, you can have a contest for the best alternate use for them.

Seriously, politicians will do what it takes to get elected and re-elected, and to get their party's agenda along. For all I know, there was a back room deal made, "Hey, Dems, give me enough votes to confirm Ashcroft and I'll toss you a couple of gun-control bones!"
 
Well, the laws regulating the secondary market are going to come. It doesn't surprise me any and frankly, I think it is a good thing to be sure that we aren't selling guns to felons.

I am very worried about how this legislation would work though. All I can say is that we were bound to get a law on the secondary sales regardless of who is in office. I think with Bush in office, we stand a much better chance of getting a fair shake.

However, he really pissed me off with the ban on full capacity magazines being extended to pre-94 imports. We should be getting rid of that blanking useless law entirely - not expanding it.

The Republicans better make damn sure that they never get in a position where I can screw them with a pro-gun candidate because they sure have a boatload of payback coming.
 

John/az2

New member
Bartholomew,

Please propose a law that will effectively prevent a felon from obtaining a gun, that won't infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms.
 

falconer

New member
I like the bit about punishing juveniles who commit gun crimes. So had I ever had to use one of my father's handguns before I turned 18 to defend myself. I would have commited a crime and therefore not allowed to own guns in the future? Right... This is so asinine. Typical policial rhetoric. They say we need tougher laws for those who commit crimes with guns. So if I kill someone its ok as long as I don't use a gun?

What about this raising the age from 18 to 21 crap? Most states have the legal age being 21 anyway (which is a pain in the ass for those of us under 21, I can't tell you how annoyed my dad gets when he keeps having to goto the store with me just to get ammo). And this assault weapon nonsense. Nevermind that their whole definition of assault weapon is way off, and that a bullet from a AR-15 without a flashhider is just as deadly as one with a flashhider. Juvenile = under 18. Federal law prohibits persons under the age of 18 from possessing firearms anyway, what is the freaking point?

My goodness, do election officials beat people with a big ole stupid stick once they win an election? How difficult is the logic in realizing that criminals by definition do not obey laws, therefore they won't obey firearm laws. Is this too hard of a conclusion to reach? GRRRRRRR!!!!! I swear the world is full of stupid people and they are all in power.
 

RickD

Moderator
For a peer-reviewed study of where criminals get their guns, go to Wright and Rossi "Armed and Considered Dangerous: A survey of felons and their firearms" Aldine De Gruyter press ISBN 0-202-30331-4. Crooks don't get their guns from us, generally. The have ample opprortunity in sundry other uh, "markets." We could shut down every "legal" market with every gun control methodology you can think of, and American criminals will have guns oozing from their pores (and this was pre-Brady). Just use England for a comparison. An island nation with strict gun control and, as the London Sunday Times said, Brit criminals now have over 3-million illegal firearms, and the Brit crims are buying the good stuff.

These gun control laws are designed to infringe and disarm the good guys. There is no other purpose. You cannot detail a single guncontrol law which has been shown to reduce crime in a peer-review criminology journal.

Rick
 

rock_jock

New member
Look, we all know that most of the things Bush is proposing are cosmetic at best. Making free gun locks availble is a joke because everyone who is a responsible gun owner already has their guns secured from children. I disagree with banning additional sales of high capacity (pre-94) mags, but realistically, there are tons of AR and AK mags on the market now, and that will be the case for some time to come (they know this also). Bush knows that most of this is cosmetic - he's an intelligent guy with good conservative advisors. I guarantee you that they have discussed this issue and said "hey, we've got to do something to appease the press and the great majority of moderates out there who want to see this issue addressed." It is the reality of politics that if Bush doesn't do SOMETHING, then it could cost him big time, and we might end up with another liberal in office in four years. Remember two things before you get riled up: 1) most of the sheeple in this country don't care about real solutions to problems - they just want feel-good answers, and 2) remember back to the days when Clinton and his socialist cronies were rabid on the idea of PERMANANTLY and COMPLETELY removing your right to own a gun. Now, compared to that, Bush's plan seems timid by comparison, AND, most importantly, will have a negligible effect on your RKBA. I am absolutely convinced that Bush believes in the individual RKBA because five years ago he signed legislation that now allows mw to legally carry a gun.

As far as the beefed-up enforcement of gun laws, this is exactly what we have been screaming about for years, and now we have a President who supports the idea.

C'mon guys, get over it! We are never going to have your dreamland utopia where anybody can go into a weapons store and purchase belt-fed machine guns like you would a loaf of bread. Any many of us pro-RKBA folks don't think it should be like that anyway.

rock
 

Dangus

New member
Of course Bill Ruger and the NRA will sign on to this BS just like they did with the mag restriction(NRA pretended to protest, but didn't file any lawsuits).

When are we gonna get some action? Is the GOA any better? If so, I wanna find a sponsor. I am sick of this wait and see conservative agenda, I want some action.
 

iso1

New member
I guess this means that my brother in law, who just turned 20, and his fiance, who just turned 19, won't be allowed to defend themselves when they get married this June and move into their own place.

Yup, my soon to be sister-in-law, a very attractive young lady, doesn't need to worry about being mugged, raped, attacked, or harmed in any way, so she doesn't need any self-defense tools other than 911, right?
 

John/az2

New member
Rock Jock,

Beefed up enforcement for what? Possesion of standard-cap mags with LEO ONLY stamped on them? Assembling an "assault" rife on a "pre-ban" reciever? Flash hiders on "post-ban" rifles? Threaded barrels? Folding Stocks?

Remember that these victimless infringements are just SOME of the laws that they are talking about enforcing.

How about we go back to a more simpler time, and a much simpler idea.

Do the crime (violent felony, meaning the willful infringement of someone else's rights) do the time. My goodness! How much more simpler could it be?
 

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
(QUOTE)
MR. FLEISCHER: “... the President has proposed ... safety locks,
mandatory sales of safety locks with hand guns. In Texas, he proposed
raising the age at which a youth could gain access to a handgun from 18 to
21.

Q Is he going to propose legislation like that?

MR. FLEISCHER: Yes.

Q It's been holed up for one year in Hatch's committee for safety locks for
children.

MR. FLEISCHER: The President, during the course of the campaign,
talked about the safety locks should be national policy as well.

Q He is going to propose a gun control law?

MR. FLEISCHER: That's what he campaigned on, that's what he will do.
(UNQUOTE)

[sing-song voice]

Oh, Mister Westtexas! Yoo Hoo!
Oh, Mister NRAlife! Yoo Hoo!

Remember your promises that Bush would not sign, let alone propose, any
further gun control?

I’m gathering crows ... preparing to bake a “humble pie” for y’all! :D

[/sing-song voice]

Seriously ... these were bets I wanted to lose.

As many of us predicted, Republicans are only "slower Democrats" when it comes to gun control.

Again, I state that the Republicans and Democrats are merely flip sides of
the same coin; wings of the same political movement; and members of the
same elitist oligarchy who would rule us as tyrannically as the English King
from whom REAL Americans won our independence with their blood.

PS. Get used to this phrase: "I told you so!"
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23829&pagenumber=1
 

Correia

New member
This pisses me off...

The democrats lose on the gun control issue. The repubs win the election. So now the republicans pass gun laws?

What a bunch of crap.
 
Bartholomew,

Please propose a law that will effectively prevent a felon from obtaining a gun, that won't infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms.

Nothing will prevent a felon from obtaining a gun if he really wants one; but we can definitely raise the barrier to felons buying guns in the primary or secondary markets.

As to my proposal on it, this isn't mine; but I think its a workable solution:

http://www.geocities.com/tanjor00/

I would also note that the Wright and Rossi study is fairly old and several newer studies do point to secondary markets (gun shows and private sales) as a significant source of crime guns.

I don't think there is anything incompatible with trying to set controls to stop felons from owning firearms and respecting the right to keep and bear all kinds of arms for whatever legal purpose you wish.

The tricky part is trying to figure out how to set those controls where the little monsters at HCI will not use them to advance their incremental banning strategy.
 

Gus~

New member
W is certainly a much better choice than algore, not even close, however, he could be a little stonger in some areas.


Time to give the constitution party some consideration.

http://constitutionparty.com

Below is a clip from their platform.
----------
Gun Control

The right to bear arms is inherent in the right of self defense, defense
of the family, and defense against tyranny, conferred on the
individual and the community by our Creator to safeguard life,
liberty, and property, as well as to help preserve the independence of
the nation.

The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Second
Amendment to the Constitution; it may not properly be infringed
upon or denied.

The Constitution Party upholds the right of the citizen to keep and
bear arms. We oppose attempts to prohibit ownership of guns by
law-abiding citizens, and stand against all laws which would require
the registration of guns or ammunition.

We emphasize that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have
them. In such circumstances, the peaceful citizen?s protection against
the criminal would be seriously jeopardized.
 

The Lost Yooper

New member
We, as gun owners, are probably never going to get everything we want. Remember we're the minority here. We are unbelievably lucky to have Bush. Sure, he was the better of two bads, but the alternative would have been devestating. I think the 21 year old thing is incredibly stupid -- by far his most foolish proposal. If he gets to choose a couple pro-gun justices, he will have done all I wanted.

Later,

Mike
 

ajaxinacan

New member
I will be extremely disappointed if he should propose new gun control legislation. At least if it is anything more than cosmetic.

That said, I agree with those who say we had no alternative. I believe neither the Constitutional Party nor the Libertarian Party could have been elected, so where was our choice?

I wouldn't want to vote for a 3rd party, get my point across loud and clear, only to have four years of Al Gore.

Hope we can someday put an end to this politics and enjoy shooting.

Wouldn't it be great if we could enjoy our sport and defend our families without being political experts too? I could do with lower blood pressure.
 
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