Build a 1911 or just buy one?

E

Eric Larsen

New member
Im looking for a couple of different answers (opinions) here.

Ive been thinking about getting a 1911 with all of the "goodies" they come with...SA Loaded, Dan Wesson etc. These are very nice guns at a great price.

I can either just buy the gun I want...A commander length slide with extended controls and nights etc.

Or I can get a "basic" gun and just add to it as I can afford and see a need for said bells and whistles. If I go this direction..what is the best frame/slide to start with. I know of the Armscor guns..CD, RIA etc good guns but maybe not what I want to get to tweak...you know? Ive heard Norinco's are very good for this kind of project..great steel frames and slides etc. Now for the kicker...I know older Llamas are softer metal and have given people some problems..but how about newer ones? I actually saw a custom made from a Llama frame and slide and IT WAS NICE!

Or should I just trade my FN HP DA c for a good one? Get it over with?

Shoot well and thanks for your help....Shoot well
 
B

Bandit

New member
Don't overlook the Systemas and the Ballister Molina if you head in the direction of customize as you go. Both make excellent project 1911s IMO.

I personally find what I need in a 1911 from the Springfield Armory Loaded models and Kimber. Any other modifications would be personal touches or trigger work to get "the feel" I prefer. All the bells and whistles are there and easily changed out if not needed. My Micro Compact for example, has everything I wanted for a carry pistol. Only thing I'll change out is the ambi safety for a resonably extended single sided safety. That's mainly because I've found the offside lever snags cover clothing more times than not when I'm negotiating a reasonably quick presentation from holster.

Beware that building a project gun can and will be expensive in the long run. But the benefit, is a truly personalized pistol to your specs. If you're a do-it-yourselfer, it would be a great learning experience and fun if you're mechanically minded. The savings in $$ will be offset by the time invested though and there's always the chance of an oopsie. Having to replace a FUBARed part can get pricey, especially if the oopsie is on a slide, frame or barrel.

Just my .02 worth,

Rick
2guns.gif
 
G

Gonzo_308

New member
The truth is that a production gun with all the goodies is almost always a better value than guying cheap and building. It even pays when you go to sell later!
 
T

trapshooter

Moderator
On the other hand...

buying a quality base gun first, you can pick and choose the mods you like, and not get someone else's idea of the 'perfect' 1911. Visit lots of dealers, look around. Everybody has different opinions, and this area is one where you need to look and play alot first, unless you don't care about how much you spend.

Some people like to just cut to the chase and get in some range time with an out-of-the-box 'special'. Others like to fool around with spare parts. Different strokes...
 
S

SteveC

New member
I just went through this exercise of researching and buying a 1911 - I don't know much about 1911's, but I'll share what I've been able to figure out from researching.

If you go to PvtRyan's site, I think you'll see that building your own custom is almost always going to cost more than buying the complete package.
On the other hand, you may be willing to pass on many of the doodads, or else want something uncommon, it may not make sense to buy the factory packages. If you don't want all the standard gizmos, but want more than the mil-spec models, it may make sense to buy low and upgrade.

The Sistemas are supposed to be well fitted, but with relatively soft metal. Soft meaning soft compared to modern metals, but apparently still good enough to give you a service life well past 50k rounds. The people who work on the metal say it is soft, but I've only found 1 person who said they wore out a sistema - that was after 80k rounds, the locking lugs were too rounded to be safe.
I've that learned that wear and battering on your pistol is going to be reduced if the parts are well fitted - that is supposed to be a good point about the sistemas - if the parts are fitted well, the soft metal becomes much less of a problem.

If you get a sistema, and ditch the slide for a modern one, this doesn't effect you anyway.

I know you like compact pistols, so I'd suggest you look at this project from another direction: get a well made, older officer's model, and put a commander length slide on it.

Good luck - 1911's offer a vast and confusing sea of options!

Steve
 
L

Ledbetter

New member
Gonzo 308 is right on the money. Plus, try getting Warranty work done after you've installed new slide stop, hammer, etc. You will find that you have no more warranty.

Regards.
 
A

auto45

New member
IMHO,
I would buy the Springfield Loaded, Wesson, Kimber, whatever you like better, with all the extras and save yourself a lot of money and time. Those "extras" are really the standard now anyway and you can have them for $600-650. Pricing varies of course. In my experience you will spend between $3-400 to modify a mil-spec to comparable specs. Again, pricing is variable but you can easily "click on" some 1911 gunsmiths web sites and price out the options. Just look at what you will spend for Novak sight cuts.

If you decide to have it built up I might suggest a Springfield mil-spec for low cost, durability and perhaps a higher resale value than some of the other brands. Although I have never read a bad report about Norincos.

Good luck and have fun no matter what you decide.
 
C

CastleBravo

New member
Eric,

You could pay a gunsmith to put $3,000 into an Amscor, Chucky-D or Norinco gun and find that you couldn't re-sell it for 10% of that. IMHO you would be positively insane to buy a third world sweatshop gun as a base for custom work.

If you spring for a SA Mil-Spec ($450), Colt Government Model ($550 or so) or Kimber Custom ($600 or so), you will have a gun that will be a good weapon RIGHT NOW. If you decide later that you want it customized, great, but you may find that you don't NEED to change anything just for the sake of changing it. And if you do have it customized by a good pistolsmith, it will be worth what you put into it. I lost *NO* money when I had to sell my customized Delta Elite, because it started as a Colt and was worked on by a qualified pistolsmith. But you don't see too many people shelling out ~$2,000 for used custom Norincos. :p

As an aside, alot of people seem to have the dumb idea that the feature count of a 1911 (e.g. extended safties, lo-mount sights, and so forth) somehow translates to better quality or a better weapon. They don't. They are sort of nice to have, but have no impact on the practical performance of the weapon. A decked-out Amscor is still fundamentally inferior to a SA Milspec, no matter how much stuff you hang on it. You could hang the whole Ed Brown parts catalog on a gun from from one of these countries in hock up to its eyeballs to the IMF, and you would still have junk. Indeed, it would be a mistake to assume that a Kimber Custom or SA Loaded are fundamentally "better" than a Colt Government Model because they have more "features." They are just different.

I've owned factory Kimbers and both factory and customized Colts. Extra goodies are nice, and extra goodies done by a pistolsmith are WAY nice (making the workmanship on my nice Kimber look like it was done by monkeys on reefer). But... all the visible goodies that lure in customers and fool ignorant people into thinking your gun is a "real custom" aren't very important. Things you can't immediately see, like accuracy and reliability, are what you should be concerned with, not which gun has a higher "goody" count.
 
N

Ninj500

New member
alot of people seem to have the dumb idea that the feature count of a 1911 (e.g. extended safties, lo-mount sights, and so forth) somehow translates to better quality or a better weapon. They don't.
Click to expand...

Preach on! I agree 100%!
 
H

hipwr40

New member
sorry to get off track.....

I lost *NO* money when I had to sell my customized Delta Elite, because it started as a Colt and was worked on by a qualified pistolsmith
Click to expand...

Castlebravo, you sold that beauty Delta that Dane worked over for you?:eek:
 
H

HankL

New member
CastleBravo, SAY IT AIN,T SO :(

Let me say this. I have picked up a few race guns that were built up on Essex frames with Colt slides and all sorts of Bomar,Wilson etc. bells and whistles for a fraction of what the prior owner had invested. Why can this be you ask? Because someone with more money than me had several guns built up near the same time and chose their favorite to compete with and sold the others at a loss. At a loss because of it's being a parts gun built up by a pistolsmith who is not well known.

I do not sell guns so I have no idea if I could recoup my investment on these deals that I have found but I have had great fun shooting them. :D

Eric, My best advise is to get a quality firearm in the configuration that you really like and go from there. You can do more than a few things to your 1911 yourself if your taste or requirements change.
HTH and sorry for the ramble.

Hank
 
C

Coltdriver

New member
If you want a really fine gun with all the bells and whistles, get one that is already worked over by 1911 gunsmith who knows what he is up to or from a manufacturer that specializes in tricked out 1911's.

If you want a hobby gun that you can be happy with because you did it yourself, then go for it.

But, you will get more money into it by adding things one at a time yourself and you will never have the gun you could buy off the shelf.

I started with a Colt Govt Enhanced and by the time I was done adding goodies to it I have over $1200 into it. $1200 will buy you one heck of a nice 1911. I had a good time and learned a lot, but I will never get out of it what I have in it. That is not true of an already worked over piece from a reputable source.
 
G

Gonzo_308

New member
Castle I agree with you 100%. I have 1911's that are factory stock, some that are modified to suit my tastes, some that are production customs and one very nice full house gun.

The truth is that the best deal for the money is the production gun that has the features you are looking for.

It's probably out there somewhere if you look for it.

my modified guns are good guns got cheap and the money I spent modifying them didn't hurt me.

Example: I got a Gold Cup Trophy Stainless for $600.00. Sent it out and had the front strap high cut and 30LPI checkered, an Ed Brown beavertail grip safety fitted and installed, Adjustable Tru Dots installed and a nice crisp trigger job done all for about $325.00 and 90 days of patience while my gun was out.

Total cost $925.00



a quick look on GunBroker tells me that Gold Cup Trophy Stainless pistols are selling for about $900.00

I don't think I got hurt doing that work.

If you can do what I did more power to you but your better off just getting a nice package offered by a good manufacturer.
 
C

Chapman

New member
Eric,

Production 1911s are a hit-or-miss thing when it comes to reliability. Remember, these are mass-produced so the attention to details is not that thorough. And you'll be paying for the parts that you will be throwing away, not good economics. A good example is the new Colt 1991A1 that comes with a plastic trigger and a plastic mainspring housing. For sure you'll be replacing these parts and then some. Better build one to your specs, in the long run you'll be happier. And you get to choose which parts will go into your pistol.

Good luck.

Chapman
 
R

Ramshackle

New member
Eric, Castelbravo and others are right about getting what you want out of the box. These guns do exist. The time and expense of having a gun done to your liking can be a problem. Also, there is the long wait before a smith gets to it and the occassional (maybe not so occassional) problems of the work not being right. It's also a question of math. Take a new mil-spec gun and add a match barrel and the costs go up $350. Do a trigger job and that's another $100. Add sights and spend another $100. Checkering=$275 plus refinishing. It isn't hard to hit $1,500 for mods. Been there, done that and won't do it again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top