Buckshot or slug for home defence?
- Thread starter yakfish
- Start date
a slug only if you are planning on disabling the BG's car!
Seriously, if you shoot the BG with a slug it will do serious damage to him, but will go straight through him and several walls, destroying whatever else it meets along the way. You dont want that for HD purposes. Stick with buck shot.
Check out: http://www.theboxotruth.com/
This guy has done extensive testing!!!
Seriously, if you shoot the BG with a slug it will do serious damage to him, but will go straight through him and several walls, destroying whatever else it meets along the way. You dont want that for HD purposes. Stick with buck shot.
Check out: http://www.theboxotruth.com/
This guy has done extensive testing!!!
I chose Buckshot to be used typically, but, if you think you will just be defending a long hallway, then use slugs.,.a one shot stopper 99.999% of the time unless you graze an ear or pinky toe. There is no body armor to stop one of those bad boys.
As noted before, just make sure there is nobody you don't want to put a gigantic hole in behind the walls.
As noted before, just make sure there is nobody you don't want to put a gigantic hole in behind the walls.
I load mine so that the first two rounds out are #4 buck and the next 5 are 00 buck. At hallway ranges #4 buck is devastating but with reduced risk to neighbors compared to 00 buck. Think of it this way - with #4 buck at short hallway distances (10') you're putting 27 x 24cal pellets moving 1100-1300fps or so into a 4-5" circle, with 00 buck you're putting 9 x 33cal 54gr pellets moving 1100-1300fps into that same 4-5" circle. 00 buck penetrates further but either will ruin a bad guys day at those ranges. At maximum indoor self defense ranges (lets say 50 feet) the extra mass of the 00 buck pellets becomes a big plus and that pattern will open up to roughly 18-22" depending on the shell.
Slugs are are really for distances greater than 25yds. For a 12ga rifled slug you're looking at a 437gr projectile moving 1300-1600fps. That's way overkill for the home and the over penetration risk will put neighbors at serious risk.
Slugs are are really for distances greater than 25yds. For a 12ga rifled slug you're looking at a 437gr projectile moving 1300-1600fps. That's way overkill for the home and the over penetration risk will put neighbors at serious risk.
Buckshot is more than effective enough for any long hallway, unless you are talking about a hallway in a college dorm or something.
There is no such thing as a one shot stopper 99.999%. A one shot stop is achieved by taking out the central nervous system, brain, brain stem, and spinal cord. A heart shot or a shot striking a major blood vessel may cause incapacitation in 30-60 seconds by depriving the brain of blood and oxygen. A lung shot may cause a collapse lung (pneumothorax) within a minute or two by depriving oxygen. It probably will take longer than that, though, especially if only one lung is dropped Almost any other shot is not physically incapacitating in a short period of time, whether you hit them with a 12 g slug, 7.62 NATO or any other round that is so famed as an instant stopper in internet lore.
I say physically incapacitating because many people are psychologically incapacitated by a gun shot or even the appearance of a gun regardless of the caliber of the weapon. I guess you could also take out both arms and effectively incapacitate a bad guy, but I was trying to stay within the realm of reason.
Personally, assuming you have a 20g or larger, I would reserve slugs for headshots only at least in a HD type scenario. Even with a 410, I'd probably use a magnum shell with 5 000 buck, but if you are limited to a 2 2/3 410, a slug might be my choice.
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skydiver3346
New member
Buckshot or slugs?
For home self defense, I would suggest #4 buckshot as you will clearly have a lot higher percentage of hitting your target. I believe there are 25+ buckshot pellets coming at your target instead of one single projectile that possibly could go through your walls and end up in the neighbors house, causing injury, etc.
My Remington 870 that sits next to my bed, is loaded with #1 or #4 buckshot, (depending on what I shoot at the range and availability). Without a doubt, is the best defensive round I can think of, (if you have the proper time and distance to use the shotgun). If not, your pistol is your best choice for very close engagements with a bad guy.
For home self defense, I would suggest #4 buckshot as you will clearly have a lot higher percentage of hitting your target. I believe there are 25+ buckshot pellets coming at your target instead of one single projectile that possibly could go through your walls and end up in the neighbors house, causing injury, etc.
My Remington 870 that sits next to my bed, is loaded with #1 or #4 buckshot, (depending on what I shoot at the range and availability). Without a doubt, is the best defensive round I can think of, (if you have the proper time and distance to use the shotgun). If not, your pistol is your best choice for very close engagements with a bad guy.
rem870hunter
New member
buckshot in mine with a box of slugs next it and more buckshot on the buttstock.
Skydiver, At home defense range (indoors), it doesn't matter if you have one projectile or 100,000... A miss is a miss and nothing will substitute for a miss. Contrary to popular hollywood induced belief, Shot spread at typical HD range is in the order of 1-3 inches with 3 being pretty far away. This is from a cylindrical bore which is the most open.
Brent
Brent
Katrina Guy
Moderator
seems like a rather dumb question actually for H.D.
which buckshot to use for H.D. would be a question worthy of a response.
which buckshot to use for H.D. would be a question worthy of a response.
Ah, I see you have never fired card-wad S&B 00 through a full choke.
The pellets get flattened and spread like crazy. 8"-10" patterns at 10 yards. 4" to 5" at 5 yards. Heck, those non cup-shaped wad loads spread like all hell even without the squish effect. I can keep all the pellets on the target at the longest ranges my house provides with a cylinder bore, but the patterns are fairly large.
If your house is small like mine, get the cheap Czech buckshot.
So far I'm the only one who voted for the slug.
As with anything where there are choices personal preference comes into play. I prefer the slugs, because I have personaly seen the devasting effect it has on deer during hunting season. Every deer I've shot has went down immeadiately, no running like after a rifle hit. Even a deer that I just clipped under the rear hind area went down and was in such shock and without the use of it's rear legs could not move from that spot.
With todays sabot slugs and a rifled barrel you can hit center of target @ 100yards.
As you can see below any rifle/pistol/shotgun load will go through walls. Except the bird shot which won't go through a bad guy.
Again I say 00buck or slug is just as good at close range, it's just preference.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22_4.htm
Lessons learned:
1. As we have shown time and time again, birdshot is for little birds, not for bad guys. It makes a nasty, shallow wound, but is not a good "Stopper".
3. 00 Buck in the 12 Gauge was excellent
5. Once again, the 12 Gauge Slug amazes us. It was devastating! Penetration was 5 jugs or almost 30 inches. That is equivalent to almost 15 inches of penetration of flesh.
A police officer was involved in some shotgun training, where they used #6 birdshot in the training due to lower cost. After the training session, he forgot to remove the birdshot and replace it with 00 Buckshot, the normal carry load.
That night, while on patrol, he confronted a couple of burglars and was in a shootout with them. He shot both of them with his shotgun, but forgot that he had it loaded with birdshot.
They killed the officer and escaped.
Never use birdshot against goblins. Use plated 00 Buckshot
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.
So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.
The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.
The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs
But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm
Lessons learned:
3. 00 Buck penetrates 4 walls with ease. It is a great "Stopping" round, but there is a price to pay.
4. Birdshot does not excessively penetrate drywall walls. But it does not penetrate deeply enough to reach a bad guy's vital organs. Birdshot makes a nasty but shallow wound. It is not a good Stopper.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 gauge.html
For some real damage use these: Sabot Designs Flechette cartridge (19 darts)
As with anything where there are choices personal preference comes into play. I prefer the slugs, because I have personaly seen the devasting effect it has on deer during hunting season. Every deer I've shot has went down immeadiately, no running like after a rifle hit. Even a deer that I just clipped under the rear hind area went down and was in such shock and without the use of it's rear legs could not move from that spot.
With todays sabot slugs and a rifled barrel you can hit center of target @ 100yards.
As you can see below any rifle/pistol/shotgun load will go through walls. Except the bird shot which won't go through a bad guy.
Again I say 00buck or slug is just as good at close range, it's just preference.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22_4.htm
Lessons learned:
1. As we have shown time and time again, birdshot is for little birds, not for bad guys. It makes a nasty, shallow wound, but is not a good "Stopper".
3. 00 Buck in the 12 Gauge was excellent
5. Once again, the 12 Gauge Slug amazes us. It was devastating! Penetration was 5 jugs or almost 30 inches. That is equivalent to almost 15 inches of penetration of flesh.
A police officer was involved in some shotgun training, where they used #6 birdshot in the training due to lower cost. After the training session, he forgot to remove the birdshot and replace it with 00 Buckshot, the normal carry load.
That night, while on patrol, he confronted a couple of burglars and was in a shootout with them. He shot both of them with his shotgun, but forgot that he had it loaded with birdshot.
They killed the officer and escaped.
Never use birdshot against goblins. Use plated 00 Buckshot
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
Lessons learned:
1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.
So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.
The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.
The slug penetrated all 12 boards.
2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.
You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.
The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds
In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs
But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm
Lessons learned:
3. 00 Buck penetrates 4 walls with ease. It is a great "Stopping" round, but there is a price to pay.
4. Birdshot does not excessively penetrate drywall walls. But it does not penetrate deeply enough to reach a bad guy's vital organs. Birdshot makes a nasty but shallow wound. It is not a good Stopper.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 gauge.html
For some real damage use these: Sabot Designs Flechette cartridge (19 darts)
It depends on your needs. As I've said before the first two out the pipe will be #4 buck. That's all that I'm likely to need need at the 10-20ft distances that I need to defend in my home. But just in case I have five 00 buck behind those. I purposely chose Fiocchi's 12ga high velocity nickel plated 00 buck because it has a reputation for spreading out about as fast as any other commercial 00 buck. That's a plus at the 10-20 foot distances I might encounter inside my house. Now if I lived in the country or had a huge house and might have to take a shot from more than 10-15yds I'd use something like Federal's LE Tactical 00 buck which spreads out about half as fast and will therefore reach out farther. I keep a few boxes of that around for a rainy day to. If you're recoil sensitive then you might want to consider reduced recoil/power loads.