British Police Raid Birthday Party

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Byron Quick

Staff In Memoriam
Dear Editor,

I read with the dismay the story of the 11 year old arrested for having a pellet pistol. I find your current political climate
sickening. I am a descendant of an American who donated personal arms to Britain during a time of dire need. A time of dire
need brought on by the British disarming themselves. Neither myself nor my descendants will donate personal arms to Britain
during the inevitable times of dire need the future will bring-if they cannot learn the first time... Do you people no longer study
your history? To quote an able jurist: "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedoms. It is the plea of
tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." Your prime minister, the Honorable Tony Blair, has recently penned a plea for Americans
not to abstain from visiting the United Kingdom due to fear of hoof and mouth disease. Never fear. I shall not refrain from
visiting due to hoof and mouth disease. I shall refrain from visiting due to disdain for people who cannot learn from the lessons
of history-their own blood, toil, sweat, and tears. Sir Winston Churchill rests uneasy in his grave.

Sincerely,

Byron
 
M

Mal H

Staff
Well then, so there you have it. That young lad will certainly respect the Coppers from hence forth, eh wot?

Cheerio, all.
 
H

Hal

New member
So much for Mike H's claim that the US police are out of control, but the Brits aren't I guess.

Care to comment Mike?

(Not to put you on the spot, but it seems like OUR problems are no worse than YOUR problems. We're all in the same boat here.)
 
M

Mike H

New member
errrrrm.....

RAE,

ok I'll bite.

I have pretty much stopped reading posts in TFL relating to "life" in the UK, since most of them are written by individuals who believe that the truth comes out of a TV screen and regard crossing the county line as the reason passports exist. Then inevitably you get someone sending e-mails to British newspapers telling them that he won't lend them any of his guns even if they reeeeaaaalllly needed them (is it any wonder the British have a warped view of the American mentality or supposed lack thereof). So you were lucky (or unlucky I guess) that I saw your post.

US LEO's "out of control" is a slightly exaggerated summary of one of my previous posts, overly authoritarian and generally unapproachable yes, out of control no. Part of my (old) post addressed the NUMBER of LEO's in the US, you have 3 times as many police per capita as the UK and that's before you start to count the FBI, BATF, etc , but I digress, that field's been ploughed already.

By way of a counterpoint, I believe the US police recently shot and killed a partygoer (in Cali I believe) who was waving a toy gun around at a party. They shot him through a window. There was a thread in General maybe 2 or 3 months back specifying the details.

I can give you even better gun stories from the UK than the one listed if you're really interested. How about being shot for carrying a stick in a bag, or waving your crutch in the general direction of an armed officer at night, both incidents involved innocent civilians who committed no crime.

Cops as a whole don't like people with guns, either immitation or real, accept it even if you don't understand it and move on.

By the way, my friend who works in Basle (thats Switzerland for Bush supporters) keeps sending me news reports (in German) of police versus civilian shootings in Switzerland, seems they are reported quite frequently, nothing is ever quite as it seems, a fact I often forget myself.

I'm not sure what your point was, since isolated incidents equal personal opinions, but if you're looking for me to agree that the UK police are anti gun, then yes I do. But if you are asking me if I believe they are as high handed and authoritarian as the US police, then with the greatest respect I would have to differ. Needless to say I doubt you would agree.

Mike H

[Edited by Mike H on 04-12-2001 at 11:28 AM]
 
J

jimpeel

New member
Only the police should have firearms

Mike H makes the case for the populace being armed. If the police can simply shoot whomever they wish (The partygoer in L.A. who was SHOT IN THE BACK; the Bulger/Flemmi case where the FBI ASSISTED in a murder; the cause of the Cinci riots; Amodou Diallo [sp?]; the Rampart Division; the Mollen Commission Report; the Christopher Report; etc) then answer this:

Who will protect us from those who protect us, Mike?
 
R

RH

New member
"my friend who works in Basle (thats Switzerland for Bush supporters)"

Is that supposed to be an insult?

I guess an authoritative grasp of European geography is a mark of a true Democrat only. :rolleyes:
 
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mussi

New member
Police shootings in Switzerland

Gee, these car thieves down here disregarded orders from the police,
misunderstood warning shots, and then get shot and killed.

The criminals running from police had ample warning before they bit
the dust. I'm not crying for them.
 
H

Hal

New member
Mike,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Believe it or not, I DO value your perspective, just as I value Mussi, Bruce from down under, Vega and Stdrilre(sp?) from the Phillipeans, and the folks in Canada, plus a bunch of others I overlooked. Yes, you are correct in that we have to form our perspective based on newsfeeds, TV and third hand reports. I could say the same for you also, right? You are also correct in that I disagree with your idea that US police are more high handed than yours. In certain areas, especially the cities, you might be right for the most part. When it comes to ANY federal enforcement agency, there's no comparison. Our feds are right up there with the worst the world has ever seen. That's really such an outrageously small representation of our law enforcment though that it isn't quite a fair view. In the greater portion of the USA, you have to go out of your way to attract the attention of most LEO's. Millions of traffic citations are issued w/out the driver being pulled from the car/truck and stomped. Millions of people are in daily contact with LEO's, lots of them as part of an arrest, yes even felony arrests, w/out any incident. Yes, an ADULT partygoer was shot while pretending to "hold up" some party goers, and the subject was beaten to the ground here in several threads. Frankly, I see no difference between that story, and your story of the crutch wielder, except the country the events happened in. A possibly hyped out police officer made a bad judgement call with a tragic result. As us Yanks say, **** happens.

I asked for you comments, you gave them. I don't agree with all of them, but such is life. Best to you, and the invitation is always open to shoot a bit next time you're in
Western PA.
 
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Mike H

New member
RAE

If only more took your attitude I'd visit TFL even more often.

From June onwards we plan to be visiting SW Pa on a fairly regular basis (South Connellsville, right on the WV border). I don't know exactly where you hail from, but if you're serious about eyeballing the "enemy" ;) I'd be more than happy to empty some brass with you.

Lendsringer

If you were "in country" it would indeed be Basel, in the same way that Rome would be Roma. My friend picks me up on it too.

As for some of the other more alarmist responses - Geez, I don't know, maybe you're right (backs away and feels for door handle smiling nervously).

Mike H
 
B

beemerb

Moderator
Mike why are comfining yourself to the east coast.You are allso welcome to the great state of AZ and we will provide many firearms and ammo.Plenty of fun things to do and see.
 
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Byron Quick

Staff In Memoriam
Mike H,

Don't get me wrong. I respect Britain in many ways and things would have to get MUCH worse for me not to support the alliance between our two countries. I simply will never donate my personal arms to be used and then destroyed when they are supposedly no longer needed. I will not visit Britain but then there are states here in the US whose soil I will never trod for I refuse to be subject to their laws. And if you are ever in Georgia, give me an email and we'll have some fun with a selective fire Uzi.
 
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Mike H

New member
Beemerb/Spartacus,

Hell yes, I wish all you guys lived closer together.

JimPeel,

I assume from your post that you think I'm some kind of Walter Mitty character who invents friends in foreign countries to support a point of view.

Geez, I don't believe I'm doing this, but here is an e-mail between the 2 of us arranging a visit to Basel (Basle is a valid spelling in the UK), I travelled to Geneva by plane and then train to Basel and on to Liestal close to where he lives. He works for the pharmaceutical company Novartis as an IT Auditor (my own profession too).

The only lie I have ever told on TFL was to pose as an American in order to avoid the anti-British agenda of certain (thankfully not all) members, it is a decision I am on occasion forced to re-visit.

Didn't they used to shoot each other in westerns for calling someone a liar ?

I also have some e-mails from my French friend Napoleon relating to some problems they have been experiencing with flintlock ignition in their muskets, sheeesh.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark
To: Mike
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: visit


Dear Mikey,

We are looking forward to a good weekend. I expect that everyone will ask you for photos on your return, so bring a camera! I know you too well. Bring your walking footwear too. Although we have "Boden Heizung" (underfloor heating), it feels cool if you are not used to it.

If you have sent me any e-mail at work, I have not been in the office since September 25th, so have not checked it. Same goes for the voice mail.

As suggested, give us a call from Basel SBB station and I will meet you in Liestal. Enjoy the journey and sit on the right side of the train from Geneva.

Cheers,

M
---------------------------------------------

This may well be the most bizarre post ever, but hey, my integrity was questioned, what's a guy to do ?

Mike H
 
F

FPrice

New member
Let's all wait a minute...

All,

My purpose in posting my original message was NOT to start a round of wholesale Brit-bashing, but rather to point out the unfortunate extremes to which a country can go when it adopts a biased, anti-gun attitude.

For the record, I have known a few Brits, I have visited the country several times in the late 70's and early 80's, worked with their military, drank their beer, and gotten to know just a teeney bit about their culture. For the most part, the people I have known have been decent chaps, although I have also known a few obnoxious folks from their country.

I like their TV (well, some of it, Solo, Blake's 7, Red Dwarf to name a few), tolerate their beer (Scotland's national beverage is a far different story!), am kinda indifferent to much of their music, not to crazy about their food, and am thankful for some of the better parts of their heritage which formed a large part of the basis of our country.

But while I appreciate Great Britain for much of what they are and have done, I AM TOTALLY AGAINST WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THE HONEST BRITISH FOREARMS OWNERS AND WILL MAKE MY FEELINGS KNOWN WHEN AND WHERE I PLEASE! (Please excuse the caps).

I will certainly do my best not to attack anyone personally over this, but feelings do run strong on this thread. I would urge all to conduct yourselves in the best manner possible. After all, look at how we view those foam at the mouth and call their opponents names and vilify them. Do we accept their message as having more validity for their behavior?

Just because we have drawn a line in the sand on this issue does not mean we have to lose our civility.

Thank you all, God Bless, and pass the ammunition.

Frosty
MOLON LABE
 
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