Britain is now the crime capital of the West

tomandnacole

New member
14 July 2002
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Britain is now the crime capital of the West

Rape juries to be told of previous convictions
England and Wales now top the Western world's crime league, according to United Nations research.

The UN Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute reveals that people in England and Wales experience more crime per head than people in the 17 other developed countries analysed in the survey.

The findings are expected to cause further embarrassment to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who has pledged to have street crime under control by September.

This week, the Home Office will publish its White Paper outlining radical reform of the criminal justice system, in part to curb spiralling street crime and to punish more offenders. Government sources confirmed to the IoS that the reforms will also include empowering judges to tell rape-trial jurors about a defendant's previous convictions.

In the UN study, researchers found that nearly 55 crimes are committed per 100 people in England and Wales compared with an average of 35 per 100 in other industrialised countries.

The UN study analysed Home Office crime statistics for England and Wales and also carried out telephone interviews with victims of crime in the 17 countries surveyed, including the US, Japan, France and Spain.

England and Wales also have the worst record for "very serious" offences, recording 18 such crimes for every 100 inhabitants, followed by Australia with 16.

And "contact crime", defined as robbery, sexual assault and assault with force, was second highest in England and Wales – 3.6 per cent of those surveyed. This compares with 1.9 per cent in the US.

News of the survey comes days after the Government published its long-awaited national crime figures, which showed the first increase in burglaries and thefts for 10 years. A record 108,178 street robberies last year prompted the Metropolitan Police Federation to demand an extra 12,000 officers for London alone. The US, by contrast, has managed to reduce its crime rates, despite its reputation for street robberies and shootings.

Experts say this is the result of a committed policy of ploughing resources into training prisoners, finding them jobs after release and then monitoring them to ensure they do not reoffend.

The Government's reforms are also expected to include similar schemes to those in the US, where prison officers act as "mentors" to inmates both inside prison and on release into the community.

However, the success of these schemes will depend on how much money the Home Secretary receives from the Chancellor, Gordon Brown, in the comprehensive spending review. Last week, Mr Blunkett is understood to have told colleagues that "He [Mr Brown] doesn't like me" after the pair rowed over the Home Secretary's share of the new spending budget.

But government sources say that the Prime Minister has now personally intervened and managed to salvage a better deal for Mr Blunkett.

Harry Fletcher, the assistant general secretary of the National Association of Probation Officers, said any attempt to curb crime by reforming the criminal justice system would require substantial resources. "The whole package is massively expensive," he said.

Shadow Home Secretary Oliver Letwin said: "This just shows why it is ridiculously complacent for the Government to claim a respectable record on crime. The fact is, we have a crime crisis in our inner cities and no coherent programme from the Government to tackle it."
 

Dagny

New member

Russ Howard

New member
Yeah. Even my cat says I play too hard. Unfortunately, he expresses that sentiment by scratching the bark off my hands and arms.
 

Solitar

New member
Mk VII, thanks for the above link.

From:
National Criminal Intelligence Service, PO Box 8000, London SE11 5EN
www.ncis.gov.uk
7.12 Robbery and assault offences reportedly involving firearms increased by a third between 1998-199 and 1999-2000. London accounted for 60 per cent of the rise, which appears to be continuing...
In the last year the number of armed robberies on public highways, including attacts on security vans and street robberies, has risen by 19 per cent.

Since the above information disagrees with the positions of those who want to ban gun possession from anyone but the police or military, I expect another round of disparaging insults from those who find such information disagreeable. This is typical of the emotional response of socialist authoritarians. Locking of such deteriorated threads is also expected. Perhaps that is the intent of those who want to ban gun possession by "civilians" . If gun banners can't win, they wish to destroy the forum for the rest of us.
 

agricola

New member
this thread shouldnt start again, but:

(from solitars post, ive underlined the relevant parts):

7.12 Robbery and assault offences reportedly involving firearms increased by a third between 1998-199 and 1999-2000. London accounted for 60 per cent of the rise, which appears to be continuing...
In the last year the number of armed robberies on public highways, including attacts on security vans and street robberies, has risen by 19 per cent.


i) it combines robbery and assaults, which in the UK due to counting changes brought about in 1998 also includes "harrassment" type offences. In short, if person A threatens/harrasses/intimidates person B by saying "i have a gun and will shoot you" (or similar in connection with the harrassment / threats) that now counts as an "assault with a firearm"

ii) it does not say "armed robberies have risen by 19pc", it says armed robberies on public highways, which says more about increased security (CCTV, silent alarms etc) within banks and the success that the Flying Squad have had in putting away organized bank robbers than it does about a lack of guns amongst the populace. Since robbing banks is too hard now they intercept the security vans en route, once that had been made too difficult they will try something else.

you also missed one of the most important quotes:

"Replica firearms were involved in 823 recorded offences in England and Wales in 2000 (and remember replicas would only come to light when a person is arrested so the police can ID the gun) and seizures of replica firearms by the Met in 1999 increased by almost 50% on the previous year"

add to it the statement that the replica gun business has almost doubled since the Firearms (Amendment) Act came into force and even you lot should begin to see what type of non-gun is driving the majority of the piffling amount of armed crime that we have in the UK

ps: solitar, please go back and read the posts - look at who was insulting whom and which side used facts (bogs invented statistics are also important)
 

Solitar

New member
agricola,
I have read ALL the posts in all the threads referred to above. You are not innocent of insults, challenges, and "calling out" as Don Gwinn put it. Furthermore, the continuing revelations of the UK's own numbers and concerns really make your numbers and your interpretations of them questionable.

To the other law enforcement officers on TFL,
why is it when police quote statistics or other evidence that supports banning guns, police arguments are not believed by gun owners such as the apparent majority which populate TFL?
 

agricola

New member
no, i am not innocent of that, but you said:

"I expect another round of disparaging insults from those who find such information disagreeable. This is typical of the emotional response of socialist authoritarians."

which applies equally to both sides, no?
 

Mike H

New member
Well one of my fellow drivers on the DC Beltway got a .45 through his car door for complaining about some other guys bad driving the other day.

About 2 months back the FBI shot a kid in the face about 10 miles from here for making a suspicious movement in his car.

Last nights Baltimore TV news featured the story of a sub-teen child who was shot in the back and killed during a drive by shooting.

I was never in proximity to a single shooting in 37 years of living in the UK, but the bullets are positively whizzing past my ears in the US. It was the same when we lived in Richmond, a little girl of 2 was killed with a Kalashnikov, guess the guy wanted to make sure :confused:

I love shooting and being in the US is fun, but some parts are like the wild west, and are damned dangerous to boot. Trying to paint the UK as a gun armed criminal, shoot 'em up nightmare by comparison just makes me chuckle.

I know, I know "love it or leave it", well white water rafting is dangerous but I still enjoy it ;)

Mike H
 

rhod

New member
More evidence of the 'spiralling' UK crimewave....

"Leader
Guardian

Friday July 12, 2002

Neither the Tories nor the tabloids got what they wanted from the Home Office yesterday. Whatever else crime is doing, it is not spiralling upwards. According to the director of the Home Office research department, Paul Wiles, crime stabilised in the year ending March 2002. This is not good news for the Conservatives, intent on finding failures in public services, or the tabloids, always looking out for a shock-horror story.

Both have suggested Britain faces a huge crime surge. Today's annual report on crime brings together for the first time the two different forms of crime statistics: police statistics and the victim-based British crime survey. The BCS reports a 2% fall; the police statistics a 2% rise. In fact, the raw police figures show a 7% rise, but 5% has been deducted because of a new and more comprehensive system of recording crime that had already begun to be applied by some police services last year.

Where there is no dispute is in the large rise in street robbery: up 28%. True, robbery accounts for just 2% of all offences, but it is a particularly nasty and frightening crime. Fortunately, in two thirds of the confrontations, no one is injured but 14% go to a doctor and 6% need a hospital stay. There is understandable public concern about this rise.

There are at least two reasons: an increase in mobile phone thefts, accounting for 28% of robberies nationwide and 50% in London (frequently by young offenders against even younger victims); and the need of a growing number of crack addicts to finance their expensive habit. The only good news on the robbery front is that the report's figures end in March, since when, under intensive Met policing, the number of robberies have fallen back in London, which accounts for 40% of all crime, to the level of a year ago.

The main message of the report is not to believe all you read in the tabloids. Only 4% of people are involved in any form of violent incident a year and the average person will only be burgled once every 50 years. Currently, the risk of being a victim of crime is the lowest for 20 years. The unanswered question is whether the phenomenal 33% fall in crime in the preceding five years has come to an end.

Historically, crime rose by an average of 5% a year from 1918 until the middle 1990s. Last year, it looked as though we might be entering a new era of falling crime. It is still too early to say the new era is over, but a drug-driven crime wave is ominous."
 
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