Brand Loyalty

[C7AR15]

Last week I put up a post asking about hand held priming tools. I ended it with a PS: You have to have used the product you are recommending. (???)

I guess it's kind of a odd thing to say but I know that there are those that will recommend only their brand. (even if they have not used that item!)

So here is the post -- Do you only buy from one manufacturer RCBS, LEE, LYMAN, DILLON, HORNADY, REDDING....
or do you have Equipment from several different companies.


Personally I have stuff from almost every manufacturer. I like to think that I cherry pick the best quality/value for each tool purchased.[/FONT]

 

[oldscot3]

I'm at about 80% RCBS and the remainder Redding with the exception of a few odd tools such as my cannelure tool from CH.

I don't often make a recommendation for something I don't have or haven't used but if do I will include language such as "I haven't tried one but research indicates..." or " I don't have one but a friend does and he says...". Readers are then free to do what they please with that tidbit of info.

 

[Reloadron]

I remember the thread and I did not reply because what I had would not have benefited you or the thread in general. I hand prime all of my loads. I have several priming tools among them are the below:

I use both the RCBS and Lee hand priming tools and both, matter of fact, everything pictured is early 90s vintage and no longer offered as seen. The Lee is the old style using special shell holders made for it, The RCBS uses standard shell holders. They both work great and neither is offered anymore so it really wouldn't matter, thus I passed on the thread. I may be new to this forum but I don't think they give awards for post whores.

I guess it's kind of a odd thing to say but I know that there are those that will recommend only their brand. (even if they have not used that item!)

That is not odd at all and unfortunately commonplace in responses. If I ask which AR 10 is best to buy 75% of the response or greater will be either hearsay because the individual responding does not have an AR 10 but read something online or the best AR 10 will be whatever they own. What is the best progressive press will net the same result and the list goes on. Anyway, I don't see it as odd as you can find it in any forum.

Ron

 

[MarkCO]

I own and use RCBS, Lee, Lyman, Dillon, Hornady, Redding, Whidden, Forster reloading equipment, dies and tools.

IMHO, brand loyalty is an odd thing in the shooting industry. Most people who hate Ford (or Chevy or Dodge) have never own the object of their wrath. But people who hate a product in the firearms industry got a bad product, or the company rep had a bad day and so they go out of their way to trash the entirety as much as they can. Then you have the guy who says "hands down" with every recomendation. In most cases, all that says to me is that they have some emotional attachment and have not experienced the pros and cons of the competing product line. Few people have the time, money and access to well beyond normal consumerism and report on a product long term vs. the competition.

So, you end up left to take your chances on recommendations. For most consumer products, you can hit Amazon and read the ratings, even if you buy elsewhere. But it is so much harder with firearms. I try to test and run gear as hard as I can because I am able to obtain guns and gear for T&E fairly easily. I can also get on the horn to sponsored shooters from almost any brand and get direct and honest feedback that is invaluable. When a sponsored shooter tells me to look at a brand other than what is on their jersey, I take note. Some products, I just go buy to test them. Sometimes they fail, but the fanboys who shoot a few rounds on the interwebz and blogs will patronize failures til the end.

Sorry for the soapbox, but you made a great point and kind of hit a pet peeve of mine.

 

[ShootistPRS]

I use several different brands but I only buy quality products. You won't find an aluminum press on my bench or plastic scales. I have steel and brass powder mesures but they might have a plastic reservoir. Most, but not all, of my dies are RCBS. After I wore out my Lee hand primer I replaced it with RCBS.
I admit to starting in my reloading with Lee loader in a box and I still have them but I haven't used them in decades.

 

[lamarw]

I have a room length reloading bench with two Lee turret presses, two Pacific shot shell presses and one Mec shot shell press. There is also a Dillon Super Swage 600 mounted to the bench and a Lee Powder Dispenser I use for rifle round reloading.

I do not call it brand loyalty as much as brand familiarity. I am at the age to where I become aggravated with the challenge of learning new skills and operating new gadgets. I would rather poke along with what I have already on the bench. This evident with the old Pacific reloading presses.

If I were to start over again, back in the 1970's, it would probably be with Dillon equipment.

 

[axismatt]

no brand loyalty for me, though I will defend certain brands when some of the green or blue fan boys want to bash a certain red product line.

That said, I have used the Lee hand primer tool for many thousand cases and found it hurt my hands. I switched to the Lyman hand priming tool and it is very comfortable and has plenty of leverage, even for small hands.

 

[WCWV]

I'm personally not just a brand, I try to purchase best bang for the buck. I'm probably 65% Lee, 25% RCBS and remaining 10% Lyman

 

[drain smith]

Brand loyalty? I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I love my Frankford Arsenal.

Now my Doc has a Dillon 1050, 2 650s, and a 550.
The Chief has 9 Lee Load Master progressive presses and only loads 8 different cal.
Now is mine better than theirs? NO. Is theirs better than mine? OH HELL NO!!

 

[Metal god]

Last week I put up a post asking about hand held priming tools. I ended it with a PS: You have to have used the product you are recommending. (???)

WOW not sure how to take that . I've never used a Dillon product in my life and would have no problem recommending them .

First , I have tools from Hornady , Lyman , RCBS , Redding , Frankford arsenal , Lee , Husky , Cresent and more . Yes I only buy what I think is best , I'm wrong more often then not . Well I was when I first started , not as much now . I think I said something like that in your thread . In fact I've recommended things in the past I've used and liked but once I tried something else I realize how bad my tool really was and would never recommend it again . That goes to my statement "you don't know what you don't know" .

When I was researching the hand priming tools there were several reviews that said the RCBS was not any good or no better then others I've tried . It took me a couple months to chose which brand I'd get and went with the RCBS universal . It is way better then the Hornady I had . If I recall the majority of posters liked the RCBS and had used it often . Was there something you were unhappy with in regards to the responses ?

 

[surveyor]

I have and use lee,hornady,dillon,rcbs,redding,21 st century,frankford arsenal,berry's,mec,harbor freight,lyman,cts,and have used ch-4d.

It all depends on what I'm trying to achieve.

So not really a brand loyal person, but that does not mean I don't have any prefrences.

 

[Rangerrich99]

Well, let's see . . . started my reloading career on a Lee single stage and .223 dies, with a Lee beam scale, Perfect Powder Measure, hand primer and funnel. A buddy gave me his old RCBS Rock chucker, and once I set it up and tried it, the Lee press went back in the box, along with the scale. Bought a Dillon Eliminator beam scale, a Cabela's media tumbler and a RCBS media separator. Oh, and the Hornady camlock trimmer.

Bought a set of Hornady dies and put the Lee dies back in the box. Got a Redding trickler about that time as well. At this point just about all of my dies are Hornady, due to the free bullet thing. Also pulled the trigger on a RCBS Universal hand priming tool. Sold the Lee HP just as fast as I could.

Last X-Mas (2015) girlfriend got me a Redding T-7 turret press, and around the same time I set up my RCBS Uniflow powder measure. Also got a Frankford Arsenal digital scale.

Most of my shellholders are RCBS, with a few Hornady shellholders in there because the store I went to didn't have the RCBS holder that I wanted.

So, I guess my answer is, no I don't really have brand loyalty, except that I don't like Lee stuff much. Except that powder measure; it's cheap-looking and feeling, but it works pretty well.

 

[Blindstitch]

I use mostly Lee stuff but have some RCBS Dies and that Priming tool that Reloadron has in the top left picture.

Best priming tool out there. I like the lee hand prime but sometimes have problems getting it seated completely.

 

[GWS]

I posted in the Primer tool thread too........and you may notice that the picture I posted showed the RCBS tool I now use, and two Lee tools I used to use.....

They all did the job......the one I use now just does it better.

As for your premise in this thread, if I may post another picture.

It shows 2 RCBS presses (Pro 2K, and a Rock Chucker), a Lyman case tumbler, a Hornady Bullet Feeder,hard to see above the bench lamp, a Forster Trimmer (left, mounted vertically), RCBS, Lee, and Redding Die Sets, and heck, even a bottle of Dillon case polisher.

But the picture is a few years old.....I added an RCBS Summit press. And when they get the bugs out, I'll add an RCBS Pro Chucker 7 progressive. I don't buy Dillon presses.....because they are......blue? (I'll never say never)

 

[ireload2]

I generally will try every brand if I can find the item cheap enough.

So I have about a dozen different brands of dies. close to 100 sets including duplicates in different brands
5 brands of presses for a total of 8 presses
3 different brands of trimmers for a total of 9 trimmers.
4 powder measures
2 digital scales
4 beam scales
2 electronic dispensers

As a result I have pretty strong opinions about my equipment.
I love to jerk around the fan boys of a certain brand because they are cheap and too narrow minded to try other brands. I can be cheap too because I by most of my reloading equipment at 25% to 50% of MSRP used. The lure of the cheap brand is pretty weak when I can buy life guaranteed dies for even less than the fan boys favorite.
Naturally I have had some of my stuff since before the other brand got into the reloading die business.
All I can say is try all brands some. Most companies make a tool or two that are excellent.
Some didn't and now they are either gone or are struggling.

My favorite hand priming tool is the ancient Lee too with the screw in shell holders. I have had at least one of every other Lee priming tool except the current bench top model. I have gotten rid of all the other Lee priming tools because the original Lee tool is still my preferred tool. Lee makes good rifle factory crimp dies.
Forster makes excellent trimmers
Wilson makes good trimmers but I prefer Forster.
I like RCBS dies and presses. I have beau coup dies and Rock Chucker, A2 and A4 presses.
I like Forster dies too.
Redding makes pretty good dies too. Herter's work but they stink just the same.

I don't mind others having opinions if they have used all brands and have given them an honest try out. If you have not tried everything and base your opinion on your one and only favorite brand you may not have a good basis to say anything except they work for me.

 

[44 AMP]

GWS, you left out the important part, what caliber is the 600???

 

[JeepHammer]

No particular 'Brand Loyality', either it works or it doesn't...

MOST companies have a failure (turkey) or two with very few exceptions...

*IF* you are first starting out and want a 'Beginner' press you will continue to use, won't have too much money tied up in, I can recommend a Lee Classic Turret press without reservation.

If you never do volume, instead switch to hyper consistant rounds,
You will spend money on that hyper consistant press, but still use the Turret press for case processing, taking down failed rounds, etc.
Other than inexpensive turrets (tool heads) that particular press requires no brand specific proprietary parts to operate.
Hyper consistant loaders usually switch to an iron/steel frame 'O' ring press, or a so called 'Co-Axial' press...

If you want a self indexing progressive press that isn't overly complicated, and works the first time, virtually every time out of the box,
I'd have to say Dillon.
Great customer service, lifetime warranty, the machines often need minor tuning, but 99.99% of the time they will at least operate out of the box.

The aftermarket has supported Dillion like no other press.
Dillon has to simplify things to reach a reasonable price, the aftermarket has jumped in to improve several small issues that Dillon machines can experience.

Production vs. costs, Dillon rings the top bell because the machines/additions/upgrades simply work.

What I can't seem to get across is the powder measurer is as important as the press, if not more so...
No consistancy without a high quality powder thrower, no accuracy without consistancy.

The products I can recommend without reservation,
Case Pro case rolling machines.
ALL AMERICAN MADE, an overbuilt heavy duty machine that simply works.
Lifetime warrenty, very good customer service.
Mine is about 20 years old with ZERO failures.

The Dillon primer pocket swager.
Simple as any machine can be, does it's job without complaint, works for YEARS without needing replacement parts.

L.E. Wilson case gauges.
While not 'Perfect', they perform several functions and will get you a useable, consistant case/round.
The gauges themselves are REMARKABLY consistant from the factory, I own several in .308 cal and they are less than 1/10,000" (0.0001") difference between them.
('Normal Reloaders' won't have the capacity to detect 0.0001" difference, and 0.0001" wouldn't make ANY difference in accuracy if they could detect it.)

 

[F. Guffey]

L.E. Wilson case gauges.
While not 'Perfect', they perform several functions and will get you a useable, consistant case/round.
The gauges themselves are REMARKABLY consistant from the factory, I own several in .308 cal and they are less than 1/10,000" (0.0001") difference between them.
('Normal Reloaders' won't have the capacity to detect 0.0001" difference, and 0.0001" wouldn't make ANY difference in accuracy if they could detect it.)

Jeep Hammer, where were you when reloaders were calling the Wilson case gage a 'drop-in gage'? And still; no mention of the straight edged and feeler gage. And then there were a few that were raving about the chamber gage, they had not figured out the Wilson case gage and were OWOOO and AWING about a chamber that that was a rip off of the Wilson case gage. I suggested if they are going to make a chamber gage why not make it with case head protrusion. And now? I noticed Wilson is making a case gage with case head protrusion and a dial indicator mounted on the top. A reloader with shop skills can read the Wilson case gage with the same accuracy without the need for anything beyond .001".

F. Guffey

I went back to my Herter Catalog and found a similar tool

 

[F. Guffey]

And then there was R. Lee and Federal primers. I was the only reloader that read R. Lee's book on modern reloading, I did consider I was the only reloader that purchased the book, and then I thought; naw (not).

I have hand primers and bench mounted primer systems, I have Lock Miller, Herter and RCBS, I also have press mounted primer systems, if I had a complaint with the press mounted systems it would be because of the lack of leverage.

I spent a lot of time at gun shows digging for parts for the Lee auto hand primer systems. Because of Lee most reloaders were scared of the Lee hand primer. Lee also had the 'install one primer at a time' primer system. To help the reloader they were color coded. Anyhow, I will never need a part for my Lee auto hand primers, but! I use lots of Federal primers, I have never set off a primer by accident but that does not mean I am not careful, especially when double clutching the handle.

F. Guffey

 

[mikld]

I research each tool before I purchase it. If a Lee tool seems to be better than RCBS, I'll buy it. If a tool by RCBS seems to be better than a Lyman I'll buy it. My bench is multicolored with tools that suit my reloading style...