Box of old pistols

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velocette

New member
I just got a box of old pistols from my grandfathers collection. Just over 60 years ago when he died, his collection was broken up around the family. The pistols that were in the box were some of his "seconds" or those that he got and chose not to display. Recently my elder brother, perhaps getting softheaded just past his 70th birthday, gave me the box that essentially had not been touched for 60 + years. All were filthy dirty, rusty, jammed up with congealed grease / oil. After some gentle cleaning and oiling here are the 6 pistols. Ranging in age from the 1860s to perhaps 1920.
Clockwise starting from top left,
Smith & Wesson 1st model AKA Baby Russian .38 S&W.
(IJ) Iver Johnson model 1900 .32 rimfire, (Owl looks forward)
US Revolver (Iver Johnson) .38 S&W,
Iver Johnson third model .32 S&W (Owl looks out)
Velodog, 6mm (+/-) Belgian
Belgian caplock two barrels that unscrew for loading, .38 (+/-).
All are now in firing order, that is their actions work properly and they lock
up properly.
And yes the S&W Baby Russian does not have its correct grips, but the right ones are hard to find and expensive.

pistolarray003.jpg
 
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indy1919

New member
I love that Velodog, It almost looks likes a kids toy, Any chance of you showing the barrels of the Belgian caplock open for reloading?? Is it cartridge or black powder????
 
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velocette

New member
Indy 1919;
The Belgian caplock used loose black powder & ball. The barrels thus far have not come free in spite of being soaked for weeks in Kroil.
I admit however, that I have not tried very hard to remove them, assuming 100+ years of blackpowder fouling and mercuric percussion caps causing corrosion is holding them in place.

Roger
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
"The barrels thus far have not come free in spite of being soaked for weeks in Kroil."

Take the grips off, wrap it up well, and stick it in the coldest deep freeze to which you have access.

Cold is a great help for getting frozen parts to unseize.
 
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indy1919

New member
oooooh I like that freezer treatment. Do you then try to move the part while its Cold or wait till it warms up after freezing???
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
You can try it either way.

One thing I tend to do is leave it in the freezer for a day or so, take it out long enough to hit it with a good dose of penetrating oil, and sock it back in the freezer.

I've gotten a lot of gunked up, rusted, or otherwise stuck parts loose like that over the years, and not just on guns.

I gave the freezer to the original 1903ish cast iron porch lamp on my Mom's house. I was afraid that if I put any stress on the screws they might shear off.

Two days in the freezer with regulard doses of WD-40 and the screws just slid out.
 
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saltydog452

New member
Handy Stuff To Know

I have a folder with that title. This thread has been bookmarked into that folder.

Liquid Wrench/Kroil and, maybe, heat, I wouldda thought of. Not super cold.

Many thanks,

salty
 
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sc928porsche

New member
For frozen or rusted parts, what I have found what works best is to use heat and not cold. Find a pan that is large enough to hold your rusted together items, remove any wood, put in the pan and cover with Kroil. Bring the temp up to 300 degrees and let it "cook" for about 3 hours. Remember to keep an eye on the heat because all petrolium products have a flash point. This will allow the pores of the metal to open up and also thins down the oil so that it penetrates better. It will soften the rust. You might have to do this several times depending on just how extensive the problem is.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
" Remember to keep an eye on the heat because all petrolium products have a flash point."

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I hope to hell you're not doing that in the house!

Kroil's flash point is 150 degrees F!

And you're 50 degrees OVER the boiling point!

http://hazard.com/msds/mf/misc/kroil.html

What you're doing is dangerous as hell if you're doing it indoors. Hydrocarbon vapor in the quantity that a pot full of 300 deg. F kroil would put out would play living hell on your lungs.

And if you're doing on a gas stove, your ready source of ignition for one HELL of a fire is right there.
 
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Winchester_73

New member
It was once upon a place sometimes, I listen to myself
Gonna come in first place
People on their way to work say baby what did you expect
Gonna burst into flame
Go ahead

Burning down the house
My house, is out of the ordinary
That's right, don't want to hurt nobody
Some things, sure can sweep me off my feet
Burning down the house
 
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sc928porsche

New member
Relax gentlemen. My hot tanks and all my heating equipment are away from any buildings and under a carport like structure. Sides and ends open up to provide ventilation and shade. When not in use, they close down to protect from the elements. There are also proper extinguishers located throughout the building.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
Well that's good to hear! Remember, not everyone has that kind of set up so we've got to be a little careful when we're recommending more advanced techniques and processes.

I don't even want to think about how ugly a pan full of boiling kroil on the home stove would be.

Oh, and pores in metal...

Given what happens to metal when it expands through heat, wouldn't any openings in the surface of the metal (pores, fissures, cracks, etc.) CLOSE, not open?

The only way I can see them opening is if they get cold.
 
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Hawg

New member
Given what happens to metal when it expands through heat, wouldn't any openings in the surface of the metal (pores, fissures, cracks, etc.) CLOSE, not open?
Click to expand...

Expanding metal would make the pores bigger. Contracting metal makes them smaller.
 
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psychopuppy1

New member
Just my HO, but I think Mike is correct in this! Giving the barrels are thinner metal, they would contract faster than the breach, thus breaking the grip of the rust and gunk, using the freeze method.
Heat cuases metal to expand, thus closing cracks. If the barrels where off of the breach, then heat would show the cracks, but they are currently constricted buy the breach, they have no place to expand too, so any cracks would close!
When welding engine blocks, each pass with the welder required cool down time before the next pass, or the block would cool and split the weld.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
I don't buy that hog. The metal around the void would contract away from the center point of the cold effectively making it larger.

A simple test would be easy. Take a piece of mild steel and drill a shallow hole in it say 3/32 of an inch.

Measure the hole with a caliper.

Then throw it in the freezer for a day and measure again.

Then allow the piece to come back to room temp. Measure it again as a control, then throw it in a 300few deg. Oven for a couple of hours and then measure the pore again.
 
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psychopuppy1

New member
Have at it, just make sure one end is clamped in a much thicker peice of steel to make it like the pistol! After all, that is what we're talking about!
And going by the contraction when cold, and we know thin metal would freeze faster than thick metal, then freezing would be the way to go? Thus the barrels would freeze and shrink(contract) away from the breach, making them easy to unthread?
 
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