Bounty Hunters

[croyance]

My turn to post a 'what if'. I was actually thinking about this today, then they did a "Law and Order" on TNT about this.

Now, to my understanding, bounty hunters (usually working for bail bondsmen) have a lot of powers that the police do not. They are not required to identify themselves, they are not bound by the fourth admendment, they can just grab you off the street or break into your house. In addition, many dress as police S.W.A.T. teams, in order to look official and intimidate.

My first question is why is this legal? A little obscure, I know, but some of you look at legal history.

There have been a few incidents in the last few years involving bounty hunters. One that I remember the best was from a few years back. A woman in Alabama was grabbed by bounty hunters, chained down into their car, and taken to New York City. She was the wrong woman, a case of mistaken identity.

I was just curious about defense against them. I mean, we generally know that there are no pending criminal charges against us, and that we are not jumping bond. If people in body armor just try to grab you and cuff you, or break into your house, are you justified in taking matters into your own hands? Remember that they are not required by law to identify themselves. I'm in Georgia, so I think once somebody breaks in, I am free to defend myself. In public, am I justified?

 

[Tshoes]

How would you KNOW?

So, from my perspective.................blaze away......because I would.
Action first, questions later.
ANYONE breaking down my door, and entering my residence in the middle of the night, day, morning.........WHENEVER......will get lead poisining BEFORE any questions are asked.
Who ever they may be................
Wrong house??....tuff noogies...........
Wrong tip from a junkie??....tuff noogies.
Better be darn sure, and then you can expect you will still be ventilated.
My HOME is my castle, my family comes first, MY safety is Secondary.............PERIOD.
God help the fools who enter therein.....uninvited, or without a knock............
Age old adage......"Better judged by twelve, than carried by six".

 

[PATH]

If a Bail Enforcement Officer enters your house and you send him to meet his ancestors, is that legal?
If you are not a criminal with an outstanding warrant or bail bond then hell yes. You really cannot retreat in your home.

Most good Bail Enforcement Officers inform the local law enforcement that they're picking someone up. Some folks are more professional than others.

 

[Coronach]

"Most good Bail Enforcement Officers inform the local law enforcement that they're picking someone up. Some folks are more professional than others."

Maybe they do where you are, but they sure don't here. I've gone on a couple of home invasions that were just the trash collectors making a house call. Sometimes it was even the right house, and they even got the right guy.

Around here they have a less than stellar reputation with the police. Probably because the kick in doors with seeming impunity, cause major disturbances and leave us to clean up their mess.

One of these days one of them will get ventilated for entering the wrong house, and I, for one, will be very interested to see how it plays out.

Mike

 

[PATH]

coronach,

If they are unprofessional then bad things happen! The profession does have quite a few less than professional people.
Professionals work with the local law enforcement. Like every profession there are those that give everyone else a very bad name.

PATH

 

[Elizabeth Petersen]

I think the difference here is "Bounty Hunter" vs "Bail Enforcement Officer".

From my own experience in EMS/PD, the Bounty Hunters here are poorly trained cop wanna-be's while the BEO's are POST certified and (generally) responsible. They always called PD to let them know where they were going to be, what they would be doing, and who they were picking up. Bounty Hunters just go in guns ablazin' and to hell with anyone else.

If some dumbass Bounty Hunter mistakenly kicked in my door and pulled a gun, I sure do pity him. I know I'm a better shot.

I can't help but think of that case in Arizona, where some dirt balls were perpetrating home invasions by kicking in doors and claiming to be bounty hunters. IIRC, they actually killed a couple of people in a failed robbery attempt, and since they had done work as bounty hunters, had tried to pass it off as a case of mistaken identity.

What we need is stricter licensing guidelines for anyone in this business. Until then, I expect to see more abuses by these so-called bounty hunters, and more deaths.

 

[blades67]

BE ADVISED:

If a Bail Enforcement Agent enters my home uninvited, they will be bitten by my dog, shot by me and will be sued into poverty lasting to death.

Unless I get killed first.

 

[PreserveFreedom]

As implied, they don't nessecarily have more powers than the police, they just do what they want. They probably aren't gone after often because they are grabbing the dirt off of the street. Like others, they would be treated like any other intruder in my home.

 

[George Hill]

I wore black BDUs and Cover Six body armour. I carried an HK USP .40 in a low ride rig and in my hands kept a Mossberg 590 with a sidesaddle shell holder and a Butler Creek folding stock.
Worked in a team. We had great success and I made a lot of money. I enjoyed it a great deal at the time. I could kick a door in hard enough to remove it from the hinges as well as the lock... when I wore my GI boots that is.

I will not do it again.

 

[George Hill]

Oh - one more thing. Cops make more mistakes than we did. We couldnt afford to make mistakes - we were not protected my the law as LEOs are. I had plenty of nose bleeds and black eyes... The only guy that got away was on my last night I was on the job... that was after I got hit in the head by a thrown beer bottle and chased this guy up 4 flights of stairs with a concussion.
Its a different kinda job and I dont recomend it to anyone.
You hang your ass out on the line for $. Your a mercenary and if you get hurt your FUBAR...

 

[KSFreeman]

Croyance, great article in the University of Houston's Law Review a few years ago regarding bounty hunters. I recommend it.

 

[USP45]

I was watching "L&O" too last night. Laughing at how the whole thing went down. This was NYC, and a babysitter was killed by the Bounty Hunters. Are you kidding me? The media would have been seething to be in the court room. The stupid @$$ ADA's wouldn't have gone for Murder 1 but instead for Murder 2/3 - Manslaughter. The bounty hunters would have fried.

But did you notice that the writers of the show naturally assumed that the view knew what a "federal permit" might be?

Notice also that the "corrupt gun seller" was using stolen identities to sell guns and they still found eveyone?! yeah, that happens...

"Look honey, gun registration does work. Even when the crooks used fake names, the police were still able to find all the owners of all the guns!" ah, hollywierd...

 

[Southla1]

I agree with Tshoes.....you enter my home you take your chances. What I will be firing NO, and I repeat NO body armor will even slow down let alone stop. The reason for this is unless I was a criminal (which I am not) there is NO reason for ANYONE to make or attempt to make a breakin into my home. If it would done by mistake then it's their mistake not mine, and they will pay the consequences for their mistake or stupidity or what ever caused them to do that.

 

[croyance]

Well, as I said, the timing of L&O was too good for me not to post. I always assume inaccuracies in shows anyway. Besides, L&O is not nearly as bad as some other shows.

KSFreeman, do you have a link to the University of Houston law review? Just a link to the main page is fine.

What is the difference between a "Bail Enforcement Officer" and "Bounty Hunter". To me, an armed men that aren't working for the government taking me prisoner all look the same.

I also thought that BEO's or BH's were not bound by the same excessive force rules that police agencies are?

I suppose the self-defence principle applies to being in public.

The reason I asked is that if they were police, I'm not sure I'd be within my "rights", as defined by the government.

Now that I know what George Hill did, I will have to edit my posts more carefully.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Just like onions and ogres, Kodiacs have layers. Never assume you know much at all about George--I learn something new every day.

 

[KSFreeman]

Croyance, here's the citation for that University of Houston law review article (I had at my home office in a closed file, not with me here):

Johnathan Drimmer, WHEN MAN HUNTS MAN: THE RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF BOUNTY HUNTERS IN THE AMERICAN CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, 33 Hous. L. Rev. 731 (1996).

It's a very good overview. Don't let the footnotes scare you.

I had a court appointed appeal on a related subject and have a bunch of cites. Let me know if you are interested in any others (or anyone else).

Kirk