Bonded .223 vs Barnes

[thesheepdog]

Does anyone have a source where I can get .223 bonded bullets for reloading?


That or give me some information on how Barnes solid copper bullets are better than bonded.

I want to reload some defense rounds, and may use these for hunting too. We'll see.


Thanks.

 

[PawPaw]

Bonded bullets have the jacket and core bonded together so that the bullet doesn't fail during expansion and allow the core to separate from the jacket. Bullet manufacturers have tried for years to keep bullets from coming apart when they hit meat, and bonding the bullet to the core is one method. Another method is using a jacket like the Nosler Partition which has two bullet cores. A third method is to built the bullet from one piece of copper alloy for a bullet without a core. Barnes bullets are homogeneous; they don't have a core or jacket, it's all one piece of alloy. Which is better for your purposes? I can't tell you that.

 

[thesheepdog]

I want some serious penetration with a serious wound cavity.

LE is issued bonded .223 bullets (Hornady, Federal offer these loaded). The military (Marines to be specific) are being issued the MK318 bonded 62gr round for barrier penetration, but without sacrificing terminal performance.

I just want to get my hands on some of these .223 bonded bullets, unless the Barnes are just as good-if not better.

 

[mete]

There's another one out there now with amazing performance - Cutting Edge Bullets

 

[taylorce1]

Nosler Partitions will do what you want. At close range the front portion will provide explosive expansion and even if it sheds the nose, the shank will provide deep penetration. Plus the NPT works across a much wider velocity range than most other solid copper bullets.

 

[NWPilgrim]

Dr. Gary Roberts (DrGKR) in other forums has described the difference in performance. The bonded bullets perform better through barriers, that is they still expand and penetrate pretty much as with no barriers (i.e, at least 12").

The Barnes bullets perform well, good expansion and penetration with no barriers, but with barriers like windshield ,the opening petals can be stripped off and only a non-expanding shank goes through the target media. Deep penetration but little expansion after the petals are stripped off. This does not happen all the time but enough to be a point of consideration.

A 60-64 gr bonded HP may be the best all-around performer. However, the Barnes bullet is not far behind and Dr. Roberts lists the 50-70 gr TSX bullets on his barrier-blind recommended list.

I find it near impossible to find bonded bullets for reloading, and even loaded ammo seems to be elusive. One brand and model may be available this week then not for a few months. Federal Fusion is probably the most consistently available. Seems very sensitive to LE orders/shipments. On the other hand, the Barnes bullets are almost always available as components and in loaded ammo such as from Black Hills, Silver State Armory, Barnes Vortex, ASYM, Corbon DPX, Federal Premium, and DoubleTap.

I would like to hear if anyone knows of a reliable source of bonded bullets such as the Speer Gold Dots, or those normally used in other loaded ammo such as Nosler, Winchester, or Hornady.

 

[thesheepdog]

I find it near impossible to find bonded bullets for reloading

This is exactly my dilemma.

I email Hornady and asked them if they can offer their 60gr barrier rounds for special order as reloading components. We will see what their reply is.

But I think for right now, we're stuck with 60gr Partitions, Barnes or-correct me if I am wrong-Winchester 64gr power points.

 

[NWPilgrim]

The 65 gr Sierra BTSP (GameKing) is also another good standard softpoint like the Winchester but appears more uniform in dimensions (ogive) at least to me.

After months of doing this same search I am basically using the Sierras and have some 62 gr TSX on order to try.

I saw on another forum that Nosler has released small amounts of a 62 gr bonded protect tip soft point bullet as component earlier this year but quickly ran out. I imagine all of the bonded bullets are getting soaked up in the LE market and it may be some time yet before they ramp up production to meet the growing civilian demand.

Sounds like an open market for some manufacturer to become the volume supplier of bonded .224" bullets!

 

[thesheepdog]

Yeah I don't necessarily need a hunting SP. rather I need a barrier round and the only civilian options out there for reloading-that have passed the DR's tests-are the partitions and Barnes 50gr tsx.
The bonded are nicer because they aren't as long.

 

[CDW4ME]

Barnes TSX and Nosler Partition handloads

I recently handloaded some Barnes TSX 55 gr. and Nosler Partition 60 gr. bullets for AR .223
I used the online data from Accurate Arms powder as a loading guideline.
Both bullets were loaded into new Winchester brass with a Winchester small rifle primer.
The Barnes TSX-FB 55 gr. was seated to 2.183" OAL with 21.7 gr. of 2015 powder (max load is listed as 22 gr.)
The Nosler Partition was seated to 2.205" OAL with 21.2 gr. of 2015 powder (max load is listed as 21.5 gr.)
Each load was .3 gr. below the shown maximum for 2015 powder.

Both loads were loaded on a single stage press, power charges thrown one at a time, ect... each finished load measured for OAL.

I definitely preferred loading the Partition bullet. With the Partition bullet, I was able to use the Lee factory crimp die (like I'm use to doing with pistol bullets).

If I used the factory crimp die with the Barnes TSX it would seat the bullet deeper . I was frustrated not being able to use the factory crimp die; I had to resort to using the seating die to crimp. I experienced even more frustration trying to get that die to crimp, but not seat the bullet deeper and not crush the shoulder on the brass. I finally got some TSX bullets loaded that suited me, but I would not want to do it again.

I shot both bullets into water filled gallon jugs using a Stag 2T (1/9 twist).
The Barnes TSX won this contest; it penetrated to the back of the 4th jug splitting it, but staying in the 4th jug. The recovered bullet expanded to .47 and looked just like advertised.
The Nosler Partition also made it to the back of the 4th jug, but only made a little dent. The jacket had seperated from the lead core, lead core recovered in 3rd jug. The recovered jacket / bullet measured .40

I shot both loads over a chronograph (about 10' away) using the Stag 2T; I included a factory load for comparison (average for three shots)
Federal AE .223 Tactical 55 gr. FMJ @ 2,873 fps / 1,008# KE
Barnes TSX 55 gr. @ 2,684 fps / 880# KE
Nosler Partition 60 gr. @ 2,536 fps / 857# KE

I was disappointed with the chrono results for my handloads; I thought that I would be closer to factory velocities since I was just .3 gr. below maximum. However, I could tell that my handloads were not as hot as factory (when shooting) prior to this test; so, I expected them to deliver a little less velocity than the factory load.

The Accurate load data shows that the maximum loading produced these velocities:
2,966 fps with the Barnes TSX
2,872 fps with the Nosler Partition
However, the data also advises that the velocity published is for a 24'' barrel and if using a 16'' barrel then subtract 300 fps or 9%.
If I take away 300 fps then the velocity I obtained is about right.

Recovered bullets shown in photo.

I'm very likely going to pull the Partition bullets and add another .4 - .5 gr. of powder to them given the result I obtained; note, that would be .1 - .2 gr. over the maximum listed (I think it would be just fine given the result obtained).

 

[thesheepdog]

CDW4ME,

Thanks for the info!

Yes according to the DR's duty ammo tests, the Barnes were better than any of the bonded bullets, unless you are using the 70 gr TSX (slighty less lethal against windshields).

I think I am going to pick up some 50's, 55's, and 62's. I also want to try some Partitions and compare all 4 vs barriers.

 

[NWPilgrim]

Thanks for the test results CDW! Good photo, too. I'm looking forward to getting and trying out the 62 gr TSX.

To get higher velocity you may consider using a slower powder rather than more of the AA2015. Something like AA2230 or 2460 should give closer to factory velocities.

 

[CDW4ME]

Improved performance

NWPilgrim: I took your suggestion and I'm glad I did.

I pulled all the Partitions and got some AA 2230.

Max load listed is 23.6 gr. so I loaded at 23.5 gr. keeping OAL to 2.205"
Checked a three shot group over the chrono and received a average of 2,807 fps 1,050# KE. That's more like it!

The Accurate load data shows 3,099 fps for a 24" barrel, if I subtract the estimated 300 fps / 9% for using a 16" barrel I'm right on.

These Partitions would be acceptable for deer hunting now.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with the partition advice. No better bullet to be loaded in an ar for defense or for hunting deer sized game.

 

[tAKticool]

Curious here and this looks like a pretty knowledgeable thread to ask.

What would be the BEST .223 i could buy I terms of accuracy , in an AR ( does it matter AR Vs Any other rifle ?) with a 1:9 twist and actually a 14.5 HBAR / 3" brake. ....

What I'm asking , whags the sniper ammo. To buyif I needed some super sniper ammo , nit too much cause I know its expensive ( I do NOT RELOAD ASO PEase Dnt aswer with w reloading catchy remark ) ..


Bt as I am most familiar with militaristic ammo types and the mostpopulr commercials brands of better ammo, im not the most geeky. Letw say you wanted to have a few mags on hand for super sniper shts during SHTF and you need to protexf your family and houae and neighborhood etc. Otherwise without your Guya recommendations I'd be looking at revies on MidwayUSA CTD ETC and mos likely buying Hornady tap FPD / critical defense / super varmint etc

 

[bamaranger]

bonded

I cannot help with a source for bonded .223 ammo, or component slugs. I can tell you that the Federal 62 and 55 gr tactical loads worked very well for my boy on whitetails when he was younger from a MiniMauser, inside 100 yds.

He took 3 (I think), two with 62's and one with a 55. The 62's were all pass through's and double lung shots at 75-80 yds. We recovered the 55 gr slug which landed just ahead of the diaphram and picked up some liver on a moving 30 yd shot. The impact velocity would have been higher, and more tissue encountered too. The bullet showed classic expansion. The deer did not leave a blood trail, but only traveld 30-40 yds, albeit in thick cover.

I loaded a small quantity of 60 gr Nosler Partions for the 22-250, but never took a deer with them.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with the partition recomendation. A couple years ago my buddy and i penetration tested a bunch of 223 bullets and partitions and tsx were amoung the bullets we tested. We not only penetration tested them but actually went out and shot deer. Partitions were hands down the cream of the crop for both the testing and deer killing. If i had to defend my family or go into battle with an ar and could choose my load it would defineatly be 60 grain partitions in the mag.

 

[LSnSC]

Ive seen first hand what the Power Points, X bullets, and Partitions will do to deer out of a .223. I wouldnt want to be hit with any of them.
If you forsee the need to shoot through barriers, I would choose the Barnes. They will hold together and are designed to expand in the 223's velocity window.
I use the 95 gr TTSX out of my 6.8 for deer. I recovered several the went through a 1/2 plywood target backer and into a dirt berm. They were the classic X bullet shape, minus the polymer tip. Nothing else I shot, Accubonds, Sierra Pro hunters, or Hornadys held up near as well. That said all the above have worked well on game.