Blue Dot in a 40 S&W

the45er

New member
With the primer and powder shortages most of us are facing, I imagine it is pretty common to resort to powders we don't normally use for certain calibers and loads. My normal load for a 180 grain tek-coated 40 S&W load uses Bullseye. However, since I shoot way more 9mm loads than 40's, I decided to conserve my Bullseye and seek another load for the 40's I shoot. I had a can of Blue Dot that I've had for a long, long time, so I looked up a load in 40 and sure enough, Alliant published a load calling for a maximum of 8.9 grains of Blue Dot over a 180 grain bullet.

I use a LEE turret press with the auto-powder drop. It calls for a .71 cavity to drop 8.2 grains of Blue Dot, so I figured that would be a good place to start. I put it in my powder drop and it only dropped 7.0 grains, which was a bit surprising that it was that far off. But what the heck, I loaded up five rounds with the 7.0 grains and picked up my Springfield Armory EMP 40, which I thought would have the strongest spring (and therefore be the most likely to FTF) of any of my other 40's (a S&W Shield, Glock 22 and FN FNS) .

I honestly didn't think the "light load" would eject the rounds properly. Holy moly, was I wrong! I shot the five rounds and honest to goodness, the recoil was worse than a full bore 45 ACP hardball. "Snappy" ain't the word for it. I shot five rounds in each of my other 40 S&W's and they all felt very heavy.

While there weren't any signs of overpressure such as flattened primers, I can't imagine what 8.9 grains of that powder would do!! I dang sure don't want to find out either. I have a call in to Alliant, but I was wondering if any reloaders out there on TFL might have any thoughts on this?
 
The VMD is quite a discrepancy. The Gold Dot bullet the load was developed with is 0.610" long and is seated 0.328" deep. How does that compare to your bullet? Does your EMP have the 3" barrel or the4"?
 

Shotgun Slim

New member
I'm a big fan of the 40 and I have loaded a lot of different powders over time with most of the available bullet weights and Blue Dot would be one of the last powders I would suggest for the caliber. Take this for what it is- a seat of the pants evaluation, but Blue Dot doesn't play well at lighter loading. I found erratic velocities,excessive recoil and a fair bit of residue.Also I am curious as to your overall length because the 40 is very sensitive to shortening the col. Pressure can go up in a hurry. The heavy loads I developed with the Blue Dot/180 were nothing special,middling accuracy with lots of blast and recoil. I gave away most of a lb.
 

gwpercle

New member
Just to be on the safe side I would verify the powder scale is weighing correctly .
Then use the data for cast lead bullet . Coated bullets are technically cast lead .

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4
40 S&W , RCBS #40-180-FN
Blue Dot Powder
start load : 7.2 grs. @ 931 fps
max load : 8.0 grs. @ 1054 fps

Your load of 7.0 grs is below max and shouldn't have been too "snappy" .
Check the scale ... it may not have been zeroed propely when you set it up .
Had it happen to me once so now I pay strict attention to get a perfect and proper zero before I start weighing ...
Hint ... Do Not Leave Scales Set Up When Not In Use !!!
Remove beam and store taken down ... Zero scale each time you set it up .
They will last longer and be more accurate ... the agate bearings and blades wear quicker when just left sitting assembled and not in use .

If the scale is off ... your "light" load may not be as light as you think it is ...my first gut instinct is ...the powder scale is not telling the truth !

I just read post #3 ... if the scale is OK then the problem might just be the powder ! I reload with Red Dot but have never tried Blue Dot ...interesting post by Shotgun Slim .
Gary
 
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the45er

New member
Problem solved

Had lunch with a friend today and he gave me some shotgun reloading stuff he was no longer going to use. Included was about 2 pounds of Clays powder. I looked up some 40 S&W loads using Clays with 180 grain lead bullets. Several posts claimed very good luck with 2.9-3.1 grains. I loaded up some 3.0 grains and they were very, very mild and yet cycled all four of my 40 S&W pistols. I think I'm in business!
 

Shotgun Slim

New member
Now you're getting somewhere. Clays is really cool for light loads in the 40. The 45 guys have known about this powder for a long time. I usually load 3.3 gr under a 165 coated bullet which is very light and accurate. Understand there are three "Clays" powders- Universal Clays,International Clays,and just plain "Clays". Hopefully we're talking plain Clays here. Enjoy your light loads but resist the temptation to load heavy with this powder. Just don't do it.
 

the45er

New member
Now you're getting somewhere. Clays is really cool for light loads in the 40. The 45 guys have known about this powder for a long time. I usually load 3.3 gr under a 165 coated bullet which is very light and accurate. Understand there are three "Clays" powders- Universal Clays,International Clays,and just plain "Clays". Hopefully we're talking plain Clays here. Enjoy your light loads but resist the temptation to load heavy with this powder. Just don't do it.
Yes, I have Universal Clays (my light 45 ACP loads), Clays (for the 40) and some International Clays which I haven't figured out what to do with! LOL
 

gwpercle

New member
Yes, I have Universal Clays (my light 45 ACP loads), Clays (for the 40) and some International Clays which I haven't figured out what to do with! LOL
Wait ... Are there realy ...Three Different Powders.. with "Clays" in the title ???
Clays
Universal Clays
International Clays

Isn't there a "Clay Dot " powder and what about ..."Sporting Clays" is this a powder or something else !

I'm confused just thinking about all this ... when someone posts my pet load is XXX grs Clays...what powder do you load ... because you know how posters love to leave out the pesky details .
Gary
 
There used to be Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays, in declining order of burn rate. However, this caused predictable confusion, so packaging now just says "Clays", "International", and "Universal" except that Universal has a subtitle in a different font that says "Clays Technology".

The plant that made them has been decommissioned. I understand replacements are coming, but ADI seems slow getting there. Bottom line: these powders are goners in their original formulation.
 
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