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Blue Dot Equivalent?
- Thread starter hatchet
- Start date
I would try that powder and just see how it works out once you shoot over a chronograph. You already have it and might want to buy more while it's available. 800x is close but doesn't meter as well. Unique is used for similar purposes too. If you haven't tried it grab a pound. It's a classic in 44 mag cast loads and should work well for 10mm too. Take a look at this burn rate chart and look for powders locally close to Blue Dot like AA.7 Let us know what you can find and somebody may be able to share experience with it. I can tell you AA7 produces a bright flash!
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2022/01/powder-burn-rate-comparison-table-download/
https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2022/01/powder-burn-rate-comparison-table-download/
black mamba
New member
Accurate #7 and Vihtavuori 3N38 both give great accuracy and clean burning in the same general burn rate as Blue Dot. Both meter very well, too.
Marco Califo
New member
Hodgdon's Longshot is a similar speed powder. You will need to compare load data for your application, but in 40SW and 10mm it produces high velocities.
Some folks here are saying AA#7 has a burn rate close to Blue Dot. I tend to think #7 is a little faster. That said, like what our OP is asking, it's my "go to" for 10mm, and I do indeed use it for de-tuned 44 Magnum. Regardless of relative speed, I think it would be a good choice, and I see it on LGS shelves around here.
As rc stated, 800X is close. But it meters really crummy, as he also stated.
As rc stated, 800X is close. But it meters really crummy, as he also stated.
Look on any load table that lists Blue Dot. Select the velocity range you want, there will be several other powders which produce the same velocity.
One could say they are all equivalents but of course there will be differences in require charge rates and physical composition of the powder.
One could say they are all equivalents but of course there will be differences in require charge rates and physical composition of the powder.
One of the problems with relative burn rate is it varies with the cartridge used to evaluate it. So what I would do is what 44 AMP said, but do it for both the 10mm and the 44 Mag to see that similar results relative to the blue dot numbers occur for both. That way you are looking not just at relative performance in one cartridge or the other, but are more likely getting a powder whose characteristic burning curve is similar.
I just saw Alliant Pro Reach on a burn chart near Blue Dot. It's for 12 gauge high base loads. It looks like a promising alternative to Blue Dot. It's probably a large flake powder that would work well in 44. I know AA4100 is also a good powder in magnum class loads and might work well in 10mm.
Marco Califo
New member
RC, I think you are theorizing on the fly, with no backup facts. Alliant does not publish any handgun loads for Pro Reach.
https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/pro_reach.aspx
That is unlike Bluedot, Unique and Herco, where they specifically discuss uses for shotgun powders.
I know! Use AI to imagine load data! (Joking).
https://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/pro_reach.aspx
That is unlike Bluedot, Unique and Herco, where they specifically discuss uses for shotgun powders.
I know! Use AI to imagine load data! (Joking).
black mamba
New member
4100 and Enforcer are much slower than Blue Dot, which falls between #7 and #9, but closer to #7. Longshot is always shown in burn rate charts as much slower than in actual practice. Charge weights of Longshot are very similar to Herco, which is a good bit faster than Blue Dot.
I ran QL tables for 165 and 180-grain jacketed bullets and ran 44 Mag with Speer 240-grain Mag JHP and 255-grain case LSWC with gas check. In both instances, the powder that comes closest on charge weight bulk and pressure for matching velocities is Vihtavuori 3N38. It is usually within 5% of the same for all, at matching velocities from 4" pistol and revolver, respectively, though neither it nor any other powder match exactly. The load ratios and charge weights are on the smaller side for a given velocity, and in the 10mm, it produces fractionally lower peak pressure, but in the 44 Mag, it produces about 3% higher peak pressure. This is an example of why relative burn rate can't tell you a valid ranking that applies across all cartridges and bullet combinations.
"RC, I think you are theorizing on the fly, with no backup facts."
Marco, you ever heard of working up a load? I've got almost 30 years of reloading experience s to draw from. How do guys use all that dirt cheap milsurp powder we've read about without published loads? Usually I say stick with published data especially for a newbie but if you know what you are doing, you can work up loads with suitable powders. I've personally used AA4100 in Ruger level 32 mag loads before 327 federal was a thing. 4100 is a 410 shotshell powder I picked it up on clearance for $10 a pound at a local shop and knew it would be similar to 296, H110 and 2400 because those are also 410 shotshell powders. Nobody else was thinking about the use of that powder for magnum pistol! I may not be able to point to a published recipe, but I am speaking from experience when I speak about powders that "may work" in 10mm and 44 magnum with loads that are worked up. I believe blue dot was originally a high base 20 gauge shotshell powder. Then people started using it in pistol loads. Now there is lots of pistol data for Blue Dot. Go figure..
WeWillie loves #9 in 10mm
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/l...or-hot-10mm-and-rowland-even-magnums.1593650/
If #9 works well in hot 10mm, then 4100 will work in hot 10mm Too!
AA4100 and #9 are close in speed and you can use reduced #9 loads to start a 4100 work up. I'm sure handgun loads could be worked up for many shotgun powders that may not have published pistol load data.
Pro Reach is new that's why there is no pistol data...yet.. But we can look up pro reach and blue dot 20 gauge data to compare how they perform. For Pro Reach, 20.2 grains in Remington STS hull with 7/8 oz shot gives 1300fps. Now look at Blue Dot. 22 grains in STS hull for 1155fps. If I were to work up a handgun load using Pro Reach, I would start 1 to 2 grains below blue dot. I would see how much the powder filled the case and work up from there using my chronograph and inspecting my brass for signs of pressure. When powder gets scarce, the ones with the least data will be the ones left on the shelf.
Marco, you ever heard of working up a load? I've got almost 30 years of reloading experience s to draw from. How do guys use all that dirt cheap milsurp powder we've read about without published loads? Usually I say stick with published data especially for a newbie but if you know what you are doing, you can work up loads with suitable powders. I've personally used AA4100 in Ruger level 32 mag loads before 327 federal was a thing. 4100 is a 410 shotshell powder I picked it up on clearance for $10 a pound at a local shop and knew it would be similar to 296, H110 and 2400 because those are also 410 shotshell powders. Nobody else was thinking about the use of that powder for magnum pistol! I may not be able to point to a published recipe, but I am speaking from experience when I speak about powders that "may work" in 10mm and 44 magnum with loads that are worked up. I believe blue dot was originally a high base 20 gauge shotshell powder. Then people started using it in pistol loads. Now there is lots of pistol data for Blue Dot. Go figure..
WeWillie loves #9 in 10mm
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/l...or-hot-10mm-and-rowland-even-magnums.1593650/
If #9 works well in hot 10mm, then 4100 will work in hot 10mm Too!
AA4100 and #9 are close in speed and you can use reduced #9 loads to start a 4100 work up. I'm sure handgun loads could be worked up for many shotgun powders that may not have published pistol load data.
Pro Reach is new that's why there is no pistol data...yet.. But we can look up pro reach and blue dot 20 gauge data to compare how they perform. For Pro Reach, 20.2 grains in Remington STS hull with 7/8 oz shot gives 1300fps. Now look at Blue Dot. 22 grains in STS hull for 1155fps. If I were to work up a handgun load using Pro Reach, I would start 1 to 2 grains below blue dot. I would see how much the powder filled the case and work up from there using my chronograph and inspecting my brass for signs of pressure. When powder gets scarce, the ones with the least data will be the ones left on the shelf.
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Marco Califo
New member
Unpublished data or discussion requires the linked warning:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606913
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606913
lll Otto lll
New member
rc said:Pro Reach is new that's why there is no pistol data...yet
Pro Reach is not new, it’s been available for over 13 years.
Alliant’s ballisticians hasn’t published pistol data because doing so would be unsafe. If you’re in doubt, feel free to email them.
Yes, looks like there is a consistency issue in pistols with pro reach. This was an interesting read.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/126208-pro-reach-4-major/
There is another powder called Alliant Steel that may also be worth a look if you can find it locally. I see Alliant Steel listed as available on Midway's site.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267931-blue-dot-replacement
Midsouth has a bunch of suitable pistol powders like enforcer, 296, 231 and N340 in stock.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/126208-pro-reach-4-major/
There is another powder called Alliant Steel that may also be worth a look if you can find it locally. I see Alliant Steel listed as available on Midway's site.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267931-blue-dot-replacement
Midsouth has a bunch of suitable pistol powders like enforcer, 296, 231 and N340 in stock.
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The OP couldn't find his preferred powder. When I was poking around looking at prices this week I was shocked by the increase in everything reloading. The last primers I bought were small rifle at $35/1000. Now all primers are about $80+ per 1000. Powder that was around $30 or less is now around $40 to $50 per pound. Some types of powder are available now for under $250 per 8 pounds but not Blue Dot. Faster powders like 231 seem to be more available. Even jacketed bullets are over $20/100. At current prices it's cheaper to just buy 9mm than load 9mm.
Thanks for the replies. Seems like AA7 is a highly recommended one. I have used 800X in the past for 10MM & .40 S&W, as well as Longshot. While I have not seen any 800X in a couple years, Longshot is plentyful.
I have been looking at burn rate charts, and it seems like 2400 and AA9 are close. They is also a lot of loads for them in the standard manuals. Unfortunately, they are no where to be found either.
So it looks like I will be playing around with the IMR Blue and Longshot I bought.
I have used Unique and 231 in the past, and they burn pretty dirty.
I have been looking at burn rate charts, and it seems like 2400 and AA9 are close. They is also a lot of loads for them in the standard manuals. Unfortunately, they are no where to be found either.
So it looks like I will be playing around with the IMR Blue and Longshot I bought.
I have used Unique and 231 in the past, and they burn pretty dirty.