Best quality match bullets?

Shadow9mm

New member
So I just watched Hornady's podcast in Dispersion, which you can find here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_fPCtaAKcs

While they touched on several interesting points, the one in relation to the bullets center of gravity really piqued my interest. In relation to how the uniformity of the jacket, and or lead core inside could effect the bullet like and out of balance tire causing it to vibrate in a sense causing a reduction in accuracy.

So the question then becomes. Which bullets are made the best, and in what order would you rank their quality?

I am looking primarily at match bullets, but if you think its a high quality consistent bullet and or brand feel free to list it. Heres What my ranking is so far.

Berger
Laupa
Sierra
Hornady ELD
Nosler CC
Hornady OTM
 

MarkCO

New member
Not enough to just go with brand. Caliber and weight have a bearing.

I really like Hornady in 6.5CM, not so much in .223. Lapua Scenar-L is, to me, the best match bullet across the board, but in some weights and calibers, there are a few that are equal or better. Berger seems to be better from 7mm and larger calibers.

Sierra TMKs are excellent in the .223 diameter, and I'd put them at the top. I've found better in the larger diameters.

Barnes Match Burners, in some calibers are also awesome.
 
I think spin testing and folks experimenting with the old Vern Juenke sonic jacket wall thickness uniformity measuring device pretty well agree that Berger is generally at the top for jacket uniformity, but Sierra and Hornady have not been asleep at the wheel, so I see the ranking as a moving target.

Bart B has related how Mid Tompkins got a special collet made for a Dremel tool and span Lapua bullets in it with the Dremel connected to an ammeter. The eccentric spin of a bullet's center of mass (CM or center of gravity, CG) that is offset from the bore axis increases the side load on the bearings, so the current goes up. He sorted the bullets by smallest load current, then proceeded to shoot a 600-yard group that, IIRC, was only an inch or less with the best ones. (If Bart sees this post, he may correct what I recall or offer more details.) Harold Vaughn worked out both a torsion pendulum-based bullet balance measuring device and a compressed air spinner and microphone detector of eccentric spin, and a description adequate to duplicate these tools is in Appendix C (p.253) of Rifle Accuracy Facts.

All these tools work, but sorting with them is time-consuming, as none of them is particularly quick.

Vaughn, by the way, shows barrel bending or vibration from eccentric bullet spin is unnecessary to account for the inaccuracy it introduces. A barrel usually only rotates a bullet a couple of times on its way to the muzzle, and it is turning it at accelerating speed at every point along the way, so there isn't a single tuned resonant frequency it would attempt to drive. It could initiate some barrel ringing, but it would mostly happen after the bullet cleared the muzzle.

The better way to look at the effect is just to pay attention to the bullet itself. Imagine there was a safe way to look down the muzzle and see the bullet's center of mass and watch the bullet spin up. An off-axis CM would appear to orbit around the bore axis. Now imagine your drone cam is looking down on a kid swinging a ball on a string in a circle above his head. The ball, like the offset bullet CG, will be orbiting around the kid's head. So, what happens if the kid lets go of the string? The ball, without the pull on the string to keep turning it into the circle, takes off straight along a line tangent to where it was on the circle at the moment of release and at a speed equal to the number of radians per second it was rotating at that same moment. Similarly, when the bullet clears the muzzle and is no longer constrained by the bore and rifling, its CG takes off to the side of the bore line tangent to where it was at the moment the bore let go of it, at a speed equal to the number of radians per second it was rotating at that same moment.

So, here's a calculated result. Suppose a bullet's CM is a quarter of a thousandth of an inch to the side of the bore line. Further, suppose that it is spinning at 250,000 rpm the moment it is released. Further, suppose that it takes 0.1 s to get to a 100-yard target.

Dividing 250,000 rpm by 60 to convert to revolutions per second gives 4,166 rps. Converting revolutions to radians just means multiplying by 2×pi, giving us 13,092 rad/s. The radius of the rotation is 0.00025 inches, so the rotational velocity of the CM at the muzzle is that radius times rad/s, or 0.00025"×13,092 rad/s, or 3.27 inches per second (ips). This means that during the time it takes for the bullet to reach the target, it will have drifted 3.27 ips × 0.1 seconds = 0.327" to the side of the intended point of impact. If you have another such bullet, but with the CG just happening to be on the other side of the barrel when the bullet clears the muzzle, so it drifts in the opposite direction, between the two, you have added 0.655" to the size of your group. The principle is diagramed on p.170 of Vaughn's book, linked to above.

The above was also all fleshed out many years ago by A.A. Abbatiello, who, writing in TAR in the 1960s, did a test of over 40 different lots of National Match ammunition (30-06 with 173-grain M1 Type bullets). He measured the concentricity error in each loaded round, as even if the bullets were not perfect, a bullet that enters the bore at a tilt still moves the CM a little to the side, and he marked the high side. Shooting then confirmed the relationship I just described and included that if you oriented the high side of eccentric rounds the same way in the rifle chamber each time, the added dispersion it caused was cut in half because all the lateral drift was in the same direction, so it wasn't additive. Harold Vaughn does that same experiment, but with a bullet type whose CM is not offset nearly as much by bullet in-bore tilt as the long M1 Type's bullet is, so that while you see the spread on a target (p.134), it is about a third the spread Abbatiello had.
 

Shadow9mm

New member
Not enough to just go with brand. Caliber and weight have a bearing.

I really like Hornady in 6.5CM, not so much in .223. Lapua Scenar-L is, to me, the best match bullet across the board, but in some weights and calibers, there are a few that are equal or better. Berger seems to be better from 7mm and larger calibers.

Sierra TMKs are excellent in the .223 diameter, and I'd put them at the top. I've found better in the larger diameters.

Barnes Match Burners, in some calibers are also awesome.
Had not thought of that. With a larger bullet an equally sized error would have less effect on the bullet proportionally.

so in theory, the bigger the bullet is, if made with the same tolerances as a smaller bullet, it will have less error in it over all.
 

Rimfire5

New member
Your list is a good one and I would generally agree that the bullets on the list are quality bullets, but I find the list rank would vary by caliber and barrel if you are interested in accuracy as a test of what the bullet is worth.

To me, manufacturing quality is not the key factor in shooting for accuracy.
The barrels tell me what they shoot best, both in weight and bullet type and manufacturer based on average group sizes.

I would also add the new Nosler RDFs to your list, although I have only shot 100 of them in one of my .308s. I just received another 100 to try.
I just got 300 140 gr RDFs for my 6.5mm CMs and probably will try them shortly.

I have two .308s with 24-inch barrels, two 6.5mm CMs - both with 26-in barrels, and two .223s - one with a 26-in barrel and one with a 24-inch barrel.
All are bolt actions.
I also have 1 .223 Les Baer semi-auto with an 18-inch 416-R barrel.


One .308 barrel likes bullets in the following order:
168 gr SMKs
168 gr Nosler CCs
155 gr TMKs
168 gr TMKs
175 gr TMks
155 gr Berger Target
150 gr Berget FB

The other .308 barrel likes bullets in the following order:
168 SMKs
195 gr TMKs
175 gr TMKs
168 Nosler CCs
175 gr SMKs
178 Hornady ELD-Ms.
150 gr Berger FB Target

In one of my 26-inch barrel 6.5mm CMs likes:
147 gr Hornady ELD-Ms
140 gr ELD-Ms
130 gr TMKs
142 gr SMKs
140 gr Berger Match, LR and Hybrids (separated by just a few thousandths of an inch separating their group sizes.

The other 26-inch 6.5mm CM barrel likes:
147 gr Hornady ELD-Ms
140 gr Berger Match
140 gr Nosler RDFs
140 gr Hornady ELD-Ms
142 gr SMKs
130 gr TMKs.

In my 26-inch .223, 77 grain bullets are by far the favorites:
77 gr Nosler CCs
77 gr TMKs
77 gr SMKs
69 gr SMKs
69 gr Nosler CCs
55 gr Berger FBs

The older .223 shot mostly lighter bullets, but recently I have tried 77 gr bullets and they
77 gr TMKs
5s gr Berger FBs,
69 gr TMKs
40 gr Nosler BTs
52 gr SMKs
53 gr SMK FBs.

The Les Baer Semi Auto likes:
69 gr SMKs
60 gr TMKs
69 gr TMKs
77 gr Berger Match Tactical
77 gr TMKs
77 gr SMKs
52 gr SMK
73 gr Berger BT Target
52 gr SMK FB
69 gr Nosler CC
77 gr Lapua Scenar

All the bullets on your list are good bullets, but there is no way I would attempt to rank them by name. Not sure anyone else could either.
To me, the data tells the tale, everything else is just an opinion.
As you can see, each barrel has its preferences.

I find what each barrel likes and go with what shoots most accurately if I am interested in target shooting.
Hunting bullets are another matter and I think the list changes quite a bit if you consider hunting bullets because there are lots of other factors involved.
 
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ed308

New member
Love those Nosler CC bullets. They shoot well in most of my rifles and ARs, except for my 6.5 CMs.
 

9MMand223only

New member
I would say that there is no way Nosler is lower than Hornady. Nosler bullets are superior and comparable to Sierra, for SURE.
Try Noslers FB Tipped in 55 grain. Those FB (Flat base), tipped, are very accurate and one of the most accurate bullets you can guy for the money, hands down. Of course, 77 grain CC is very good bullet too.

Thats for accuracy.
 

Shadow9mm

New member
I would say that there is no way Nosler is lower than Hornady. Nosler bullets are superior and comparable to Sierra, for SURE.
Try Noslers FB Tipped in 55 grain. Those FB (Flat base), tipped, are very accurate and one of the most accurate bullets you can guy for the money, hands down. Of course, 77 grain CC is very good bullet too.

Thats for accuracy.
I was specifically looking at the ELD M and X series bullets I listed their standard match bullets below Nosler and Sierra. In general I would say Nosler and sierra are comparable above Hornady.
 
...And that brings up another point. There have always been reports that some guns really like Nosler bullets but that others won't shoot them well. If you take a caliper and set one of the Noslers in it sideways, you see a slight taper from the heel to the shoulder, sort of like this:

attachment.php


Other bullets also have a slight diameter increase at the heel (the pressure ring), but the bearing surface isn't always tapered to a draft angle like that, which Nosler probably includes to reduce the chance the punch that ejects the formed bullet from the forming die will introduce any distortion. That taper will make it easier to cause in-bore bullet tilt, so my expectation is that bores that are tight or loading procedures that eliminate loaded-round concentricity error will tend to shoot them most accurately.

At any rate, bullet design will be a factor, too. A more common one is the tangent vs. secant ogive, the latter, again, making alignment more critical, as the former will tend to touch the lands at the bore diameter first, which helps center it, while the latter will tend to make contact with the lands at groove diameter first and sacrifice the taper-and-cone self-centering effect.
 

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std7mag

New member
I've seen & heard of people having issues with the Hornady ELDM bullets in fast twist barrels.
Some folks like & shoot the Hornady A-Tips. Mostly at longer ranges.

Most of what i see at matches is Lapua ( again at longer ranges), Sierra & Berger for the "commercial manufacturers".

But i see just as many of the smaller "custom" bullet makers anymore.
Like ESP & Bart's.

So far as i know, i'm the only one at my local matches shooting Nosler RDF bullets.

While many shooters prefer to "jam" the bullets in the lands, i've found the RDF like a jump of 0.030".

And while Berger & Sierra make heavy for caliber bullets, more & more i'm seeing solid copper bullets used for ELR/ULR matches. Namely Cutting Edge Bullets.
 

Shadow9mm

New member
I've seen & heard of people having issues with the Hornady ELDM bullets in fast twist barrels.
Some folks like & shoot the Hornady A-Tips. Mostly at longer ranges.

Most of what i see at matches is Lapua ( again at longer ranges), Sierra & Berger for the "commercial manufacturers".

But i see just as many of the smaller "custom" bullet makers anymore.
Like ESP & Bart's.

So far as i know, i'm the only one at my local matches shooting Nosler RDF bullets.

While many shooters prefer to "jam" the bullets in the lands, i've found the RDF like a jump of 0.030".

And while Berger & Sierra make heavy for caliber bullets, more & more i'm seeing solid copper bullets used for ELR/ULR matches. Namely Cutting Edge Bullets.
Solid copper have the potential to wear out a barrel faster than a lead core, which I would think would be less than ideal. It was in this thread, post # 14 https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615772 UnkleNick talks about why.

Unklenick he military studied this and found during WWII that firing 30-06 armor-piercing ammunition would shorten rifle barrel life by up to about 30% as compared to jacketed lead ball ammo. These bullets have a hardened core under the jacket, so the throat and bore have to work harder to deform the surface to engrave rifling. This raises start pressure, which means the throat will endure somewhat longer exposure to peak pressures and temperatures. Shooting solid copper and bronze bullets should exhibit some of the same effects, but I don't know how much.
 
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