Best non +P 9mms for a short barrel (Sig 365) for SD

[Blade37db]

I recently picked up a Sig 365 for EDC. I carry Speer GD 124gr +P in my G19s but I think I want to explore non +P options for the 365. That would eliminate the Speer GD Short Barrel ammo.
I see a lot of people recommend the 124gr HST, but not sure if that applies to shorter barrels.
Recommendations appreciated.
Thanks

 

[sigarms228]

You should be fine with the 124 HST. Luckygunner did an extensive tests on self defense ammo and you can see the results in the link below where 124 HST did great. They also used shorter barrel pistols for their testing. For 9MM they used the Smith and Wesson M&P 9C as pictured.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

[wild cat mccane]

Nothing beats HST.

 

[USNRet93]

I recently picked up a Sig 365 for EDC. I carry Speer GD 124gr +P in my G19s but I think I want to explore non +P options for the 365. That would eliminate the Speer GD Short Barrel ammo.
I see a lot of people recommend the 124gr HST, but not sure if that applies to shorter barrels.
Recommendations appreciated.
Thanks

This..Lehigh Xtreme Defender..good video about it considering it's made by Lehigh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAxqkxkSz4k

 

[TBM900]

I recently picked up a Sig 365 for EDC. I carry Speer GD 124gr +P in my G19s but I think I want to explore non +P options for the 365. That would eliminate the Speer GD Short Barrel ammo.
I see a lot of people recommend the 124gr HST, but not sure if that applies to shorter barrels.
Recommendations appreciated.
Thanks

Whatever quality brand name manufacturer you can afford to practice with the most, that feeds reliably in your chosen platform, period.

No bullet type, weight, pressure, or gimmick trumps....
Practice
Placement
Penetration

 

[gnystrom]

I am using Underwood Extreme Defender in all my 9mm carry guns. Their performance is exceptional even through windshield glass. The downside is the bullet shape which may not be the best if you wind up in court defending yourself. I am old and value performance over being killed by a carjacker and winding up in court.

The best advice I was ever given on this subject was, "find out what your local LE uses and assuming it feeds in your gun, carry that ammo"

 

[USNRet93]

I am using Underwood Extreme Defender in all my 9mm carry guns. Their performance is exceptional even through windshield glass. The downside is the bullet shape which may not be the best if you wind up in court defending yourself. I am old and value performance over being killed by a carjacker and winding up in court.

Never heard this..are their any articles you can point to about this..I carry these in both my handguns(Glock 17 and -42)..

 

[Tactical Jackalope]

I have Speer Gold Dot standard pressure 124gr in my Kahr K9. I don't feel like it'll under perform.

That said, literally all of my guns are loaded with Federal HST either +P or standard pressure.

My HKs are the same but I also run them with Winchest Ranger T 127gr +P+.



Now if you're concerned about ballistic performance out of a shorter barrel, seek shelter in the realm of 115gr bullets. SilverBack or Corbon DPX.

 

[OhioGuy]

This has to be the most over-analyzed question I run across, and I know because I over-analyzed it myself for quite a while. Online ballistic testing tends to produce contradictory results. As best I understand it, the magic behind a "short barrel hollow point" is simply that it's able to fully expand at lower velocities than would be achieved by a longer barrel.

Some options that seem to perform very well out of short barreled pistols include:

- HST 124, 147 and 150 (micro)
- Winchester Defend 147
- Sig's own "365" hollow point ammo
- Hornady Critical Defense 115 (although it seems to have shallower penetration in the reviews I've read, like 12-13" in gel vs. 16" for the others...however it's also been shown to perform very consistently through a lot of different barriers whereas other HP designs can get clogged and not fully expand)

Out of the above, I'd recommend the HST for two reasons: (1) it's never going to fail and it's a demonstrated performer, and (2) you can order it in 50 round boxes at a reasonable price and run it through your gun without feeling like you're wasting money. Most HP ammo is badly overpriced.

That said, I carry Winchester 147 because I bought a couple boxes of it before I discovered that HST costs less. Eventually I'll shoot off my carry ammo and maybe I'll switch to HST. Maybe not. I really don't worry about it anymore.

But overall it really doesn't matter. If you chose one of the ones I just listed, or one that others here have listed, so long as it runs reliably through your P365, just go with it. They'll all poke holes in things and will offer good terminal performance.

 

[OhioGuy]

The downside is the bullet shape which may not be the best if you wind up in court defending yourself.

Is there any hard evidence to back this up?

I hear this sort of claim made all the time on forums, don't do (or carry) X with your gun or you'll be seen as a cold-blooded killer and will never get a fair trial, where X can be any of the following:

- Trigger modification
- "Unusual" types of defense ammo
- Laser sights
- Red dot sights
- Extended magazines
- Spare magazines

I asked a lawyer -- granted, just one lawyer who specializes in 2A law -- and he said that's all internet myth and not substantiated by anything he's ever seen.

This specific Extreme Defender doesn't look all that extreme, apart from the name. Cheap ball ammo can achieve extreme penetration for $0.20 and destroy living things just as quick as any other load if it hits in the right spot.

On the other hand, there may be legal precedent for this or that type of 9mm ammunition being challenged. I'd just like to know what it is so I can review it for myself.

 

[chris in va]

Why no +p? The p365 is rated for it.

 

[Blade37db]

I know it is. Just find standard a little more controllable in that light of a gun

 

[FITASC]

I agree with that; the beauty of the 365 is thin, light, good capacity; but it is like (IMO) putting a 357 into a 2" airweight snubbie.

 

[chris in va]

but it is like (IMO) putting a 357 into a 2" airweight snubbie.

The 365 doesn't have anywhere near the recoil.

 

[Captains1911]

Is there any hard evidence to back this up?

I hear this sort of claim made all the time on forums, don't do (or carry) X with your gun or you'll be seen as a cold-blooded killer and will never get a fair trial, where X can be any of the following:

- Trigger modification
- "Unusual" types of defense ammo
- Laser sights
- Red dot sights
- Extended magazines
- Spare magazines

I asked a lawyer -- granted, just one lawyer who specializes in 2A law -- and he said that's all internet myth and not substantiated by anything he's ever seen.

This specific Extreme Defender doesn't look all that extreme, apart from the name. Cheap ball ammo can achieve extreme penetration for $0.20 and destroy living things just as quick as any other load if it hits in the right spot.

On the other hand, there may be legal precedent for this or that type of 9mm ammunition being challenged. I'd just like to know what it is so I can review it for myself.

Massad Ayoob recommends against it. He’s forgotten more about deadly force law than most people ever know, so I tend to heed his advice. Plus, with all the quality self defense loads out there, there’s no reason to use something obscure anyway.

 

[Captains1911]

Why no +p? The p365 is rated for it.

Excessive recoil out of such a lightweight gun, and the slight increase in velocity over standard pressure is negligible in terms of terminal bullet performance.

 

[Mackie244Bud]

In my P365 and P320c RX I use Federal HST 124g JHP or Speer Gold Dot 124g JHP for Defensive.

Federal HST 124g AmmoQuest Review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0

Federal HST 124g +P AmmoQuest Review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld5jpsaDjbA

 

[Blade37db]

Whatever quality brand name manufacturer you can afford to practice with the most, that feeds reliably in your chosen platform, period.

No bullet type, weight, pressure, or gimmick trumps....
Practice
Placement
Penetration

I agree. I was just looking for suggestions for the best starting point. 124gr HSTs seems to be the winner so I'll start by testing them in my 365

 

[RickB]

The downside is the bullet shape which may not be the best if you wind up in court defending yourself.
Is there any hard evidence to back this up?

There was a case, very well publicized, including a TV show episode about the incident, in which a guy (hiking somewhere in California, IIRC) who'd used a 10mm handgun in a shooting was accused of being a homicidal maniac for choosing it.
I don't know if the accusation figured in the verdict or sentence, but it did come up.

Sort of related; an acquaintance, who happens to be an attorney, was accused, by another attorney, in court, of being a violent maniac, the latter presenting a youtube video of my buddy at an IDPA match as evidence.

 

[IdaD]

This is probably unpopular but I've gone back to Winchester White Box in 115 grain JHP. It's been reliable and accurate in my guns and I can get it locally for $16 per 50 round box plus sales tax. I think regularly shooting carry ammo is a good idea and this makes it easy and affordable. In the past I've carried Gold Dots, Critical Defense or more commonly HST but I got tired of having to buy online in bulk to spread out the shipping cost and I'm unwilling to pay $1/round for the 20 round retail boxes of that stuff. Maybe I'm just lazy or cheap, or probably both.