Best factory .44mag load for personal defense?

[ZWolfgang]

Many folks would say that the .44mag is too powerful from a rifle for close range personal defense, due to overpenetration issues. Aside from "collateral damage" concerns, if you had to select a factory .44mag JHP load for close range personal defense with a lever rifle (against 2-legged adversaries) what would you choose and why?

Some options are:

.44 Magnum
(except where noted, all rounds were chronographed from a Marlin 1894SS .44mag at 9' from muzzle)
Hornady 240 gr. JHP/XTP 1897 fps/1918 fpe
Fiocchi 240 gr. JSP 1838 fps/1800 fpe
Speer Gold Dot 210 gr. JHP 1913 fps/1706 fpe
Win. Hollow SP 240 gr. HSP 1744 fps/1621 fpe
Win. Silvertip HP 210 gr. HSP 1250 fps/729 fpe (factory data from pistol)
American Eagle 240 gr. JHP 1686 fps/ 1514 fpe

 

[hatchet]

www.garrettcartridges.com

 

[Jimmyp50]

I believe beyond a certain point, more is not always better. Most likely there would not be any real difference in any of the loads you are interested in. I mean how dead is dead? A live target even hit with a fair rifle bullet does not always succumb immeadiately. With the 44 magnum you are going to shoot right through the target, and some of the energy is going to be expended on the ground or what ever. I don't know for sure but I have had good luck with the WW 240 grain softpoint on deer. What ever blows the biggest hole with the minimal amount of over penetration, maybe the lighter 180 grain loads would be best for your interests. jimmyp

 

[LAK]

I would try them all in wetpack first if possible; but my speculation is that the 210 Gold Dots might work pretty good. All of them have good potential at those velocities though.

 

[Sarge]

I'd go with...

the 210 Silvertip. I has a nice short bullet with no exposed lead & a round profile, so it should feed well through about anything. It is designed to expand (and does) from 4" revolvers, and should really expand from a rifle.

The 210 ST was my duty load in the days when I packed a 4" M29, and while I never had to dust anybody with it, it was quite effective on injured deer, etc. I still keep the old gun loaded with it.

 

[ZWolfgang]

Now don't get me wrong... there's no way in **** I'd like to stand in front of a .44 Special anything, especially coming out of a 16" Trapper. But tonight I chronographed a variety of .44mag and a .44 Special loads from my Winchester 94 16" Trapper and the .44 Special load really wasn't much better than you would get from a pistol. Keep in mind that my choice to use a rifle is to gain some significant power over using a pistol, in addition to better accuracy. I've also got the pistols at hand, but when I grab the rifle I want to really up the ante in terms of penetration, expansion, and energy.

I feel a 16" Trapper in .44mag is the perfect personal defense rifle *for ME* because I love lever rifles, the caliber is a goodie, and it's so short and easy to maneuver in close quarters like the home or RV. I live on acerage in the country, so my risk of collateral damage is much lower than an apartment dweller in the city would have.

Anyway, here's my chrony data using the Winchester 94 16" Trapper in .44 Magnum:

Winchester '94 16" Trapper - .44 Magnum

.44 Mag /Win 94 16"/Hornady 200 gr. JHP/XTP/1919fps/1635fpe
.44 Mag/Win 94 16"/Speer Gold Dot 210 gr. JHP/1919fps/1716fpe
.44 Mag/Win 94 16"/Hornady 240 gr. JHP/XTP/1781fps/1689fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Winchester 240 gr. Hollow SP/1749fps/1630fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Winchester Partition Gold JHP/1680fps/1567fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Amer Eagle 240 gr. JHP/1657fps/1463fpe
.44 Mag Win 94 16"/Win 210 gr. Silvertip HP/1578fps/1161fpe
.44 Spl Win 94 16"/Win 200gr. Silvertip HP/1000fps/444fpe

I view the .44 Special performance in a Trapper somewhat as I view most .45 Colt loads in a Trapper... not much better than shooting a pistol. There are one or two noteworty exceptions to this, however, Corbon being one of them. Typically, I find Corbon is loaded hot enough and with a slow enough powder to be able to make good use of longer barrels in gaining velocity. The only downside is that the velocity might become so great that the bullet would over expand too early and not penetrate to the deep CNS. Winchester's Supreme Partition bullets will definitely expand, but as I learned from Dr.T, the expansion is limited by the partition, thereby ensuring excellent penetration (and most likely an exit wound as well).

For the record, the Win 210 gr. Silvertip .44 mag. load when fired from the Trapper created a large, bright, burst of muzzle flash... something none of the other rounds did with the 16" Trapper. So while recoil may be much milder, the bright flash in a darkened scene could momentarily blind both shooter and perp.

Of these loads, I think the 210 gr. Silvertip in .44 mag might well be the best compromise between controllability, velocity, expansion, and penetration. It's definitely a downloaded factory .44 mag load, which is really nice to have in a world where everything seems to need to be bigger, hotter, faster! Too bad about the muzzle flash though! I wouldn't be uncomfortable with the Hornady 200 gr., Gold Dot 210 gr., or the Win Supreme Partition 250 gr. as defense loads, though they did recoil more than the 210 Silvertip round did.

While a couple of the .44 Special loads (especially the Corbon, which I haven't tested yet) look to be pretty good performers, I'm more comfortable in assuming that my potential two-legged adversary might possibly be a really big guy, hopped up on who knows what, and possibly wearing some heavy clothing or, slight possibility, a tactical vest!

With that assumption in mind, why would I want to load a .44 mag Trapper with mild .44 Special pistol ammo when I could use something like the 200 gr. Hornady XTP/JHP or Winchester Partition 250 gr. JHP? I presume most if not all rounds may very well exit the perp anyway, so why not use some fairly stout power to raise the ante significantly over just pistol power?

Assume, again, rural setting, and before shooting, considering the potential for possible collateral damage should rounds miss or exit. (I read somewhere that up to 90% of police rounds fired actually miss the target entirely!) With that possibility looming large, even if you water down your loads to mousephart Cowboy loads, there's a significant chance that one or more of your fired bullets are going to go downrange anyway without striking your primary target... so consideration of the downrange at the moment of shooting is critical no matter what the round or caliber.

 

[Sarge]

Good info, Wolfie...

& thanks for posting it.

 

[Rmouleart]

I like the Gold Dot 240gr GDHP, opens up nice, and holds together, I notice many officials are carry them, thats saying something, I also like Hornadys XTP 240gr as well. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

 

[ZWolfgang]

Rmouleart... what officials are you referring to and what firearms are they firing the 240 gr. Gold Dot from?

THe problem I have with nearly all the .44mag JHP "defense" loads is that they are all designed for hunting... I don't know of one, (except the .44 mag Win 210 Silvertip which has huge muzzle blast) which isn't so much power that the effectiveness of the round is really compromised by the recoil and over-penetration.

All the factory ammo makers seem to think that every load they make in .44mag has to have the most sizzling velocities and massive energy to sell. Therefore we have a glut of super .44 magnum loads to choose from and not one really good "moderate" .44 mag load for personal defense use. And the .44 special ain't it... they're way to watered down. I understand why they don't want to make a hot .44 special (old guns out there), but why the heck not make a somewhat toned down .44 magnum with Gold Dot bullets?

TO my mind, there is a big product opportunity to create a "personal defense" .44 magnum load specifically for use against people... a .44mag round for people who have pistols and rifles chambered in .44mag., and want a nicely balanced load specifically for personal defense, not for hunting.

I'm dreaming of a .44mag 240 gr. Gold Dot bullet traveling at about 1275 fps from a 16" lever rifle barrel. That would yield about 866 fpe and be nearly the perfect round against people... plenty of power, just the right velocity for good expansion and penetration from the Gold Dot bullet, but not so much speed and power as to hamper follow up shots and overpenetrate, wasting much of the energy well beyond the target.

Ammo makers... please offer us .44mag shooters a round which is something like this!

 

[zeke]

If sticking to major factory loads, would check and see if Remington makes a factory load with their 180 sjhp, or try HDY factory 180 xtp (both around 2000 fps from rifle?). Both of these bullets appear to expand quite readily, and would seem to lower the chance of excessive penetration. The HDY version barks a bit, would be wondering if the Rem 180 sjhp would last long at 2000 fps.

 

[ZWolfgang]

VALHALLA!

Well I just knew that some ammo manufacturer had to see the need for a lighter .44 mag loading specifically for self-defense... ProLoad did and so did a smaller ammo maker. A fellow poster on another site has suggested I check the ProLoad offering... that's the one important manufacturer I neglected to look at!

Their .44 mag "Tactical Lite" has a 200 gr. Gold Dot JHP traveling at 1050 fps from a 4" barrel. This is just about perfect for accelerating a bit in a 16" Trapper and the Gold Dot bonded bullet is excellent for defense use.

My experience shows a velocity increase with .44 mag ammo of between 350-500 fps when going from pistol to 16" Trapper. Assuming a 400 fps increase in the Pro-Load Tactical Lite in my .44 mag Trapper lever rifle, that would put velocity at around 1450 fps with 933 fpe... just about ideal for .44mag as a personal defense load I'd say.

My search for an excellent .44 magnum defense load for a short rifle is over... awesome!

Winchester '94 16" Trapper - .44 Magnum

 

[Al Thompson]

Interesting thread. I've done some chrono work with my .44 Marlin and the excessive velocity gain in the handgun loads worried me. The faster you move a bullet, the less penetration (JHP, JSP, SWC) you get in tissue/meat. My solution for a hunting load was/is the WWB 240 grain JSP. I like the Gold Dots in handgun ammo, but think the addional velocity from a rifle barrel would adversely effect penetration on critters.

 

[Sulaco]

I lined up some water jugs this weekend and shot them with my Winchester Trapper in 44 using 210gr GDHP's. The damn things went through all four one gallon milk jugs full of water and left them all in shreds. People at the range were really flipping out, as was I. These things are loaded hot and come screaming out of a 16" barrel. Bonded shmonded! I found lead and copper bullet fragments all over the place! I found most fragments in what was left of the last jug, but not once in 6 shots did I find an intact, expanded round. I may have to go back to CorBon and see what they do. It's a shame too, because GDHP's perform quite well in my pistols.

 

[ZWolfgang]

Sulaco... try the ProLoad Tactical Lite when shooting with the carbine/Trapper... it won't be travelling at near the speed of the full power Speer Gold Dot load... might be just the ticket.

 

[Al Thompson]

Sulaco, that's exactly my point. When you overstress a bullet, they tend to shred. FWIW, the various deer and hogs that I've shot with Gold Dots have greatly increased my appreciation of the bullet.

 

[adk]

I looked up the Win 210gr STHP and see that Winchester has it loaded to 1250 fps from a 4" barrel, which gives 729 ft-lbs at the muzzle, and 570 at 50 yards. So maybe they have about 650 ft-lbs at 25 yards.

Marshall and Sanow show this factory round as being a 93% fight stopper with a first shot to the zone, on the steets, from a 4" gun.

I bought a bulk of the bullets awhile back to load for a 16" lever carbine as self-defense ammunition, but can't make up my mind what velocity I want. I loaded some at about 1550 fps (muzzle) using the max W231 charge in the Winchester book, and they were very pleasant to shoot in the carbine. (By the way, these would not cycle my friend's Ruger Deerfield.)

Another note: the average of 1550 fps was from my 16" Marlin 1894P. But I only got 1450 from my 16" Trapper = 100 fps slower.

Accuracy from both carbines was so-so. The bullets are a full .001" out of round - and I thought maybe these are the ones Winchester culls and sells as handload components. I've never seen any other jacketed bullet that far out. adk

--------------------------------

 

[ZWolfgang]

adk... that speed and energy from a pistol is a great load (if you don't mind that kind of whallop in a pistol... I don't care for shooting .44mags in pistols). But froma carbine, that same load would go way too fast for good terminal performance. I'd like to see it no greater than about 1400 fps from a Trapper... then it would probably perform pretty well. But I think Gold Dot bullets have possibly proven to be a better design these days. Of course the key is not to push them too fast! That's why I think the ProLoad "Lite" is perfect for use in a lever rifle.. it speeds up nicely, but still much slower than full-pop .44magnum loads.

 

[adk]

Maybe the right velocity for handloads from the 16" carbine for the 210gr STHP is 1250, the same as the Winchester factory loads them for the 4" revolver. That way, you know what the bullet's performance will be because there is plenty of data available. And 729 ft-lbs at the muzzle, with 540 remaining at 50 yards, is way plenty for social purposes.

For me, the only purpose of the social self-defense carbine is to get more hits than I could with the handgun, out to 25 yards. I hate to lose track of what the bullet might do at higher speeds. Seems like that's where all the trouble comes in for me. The unknowns of the faster bullet.

Of course, handloads for self defense, and any factory handgun load shot from a carbine is probably Frankenstein stuff in court anyway. adk

 

[zeke]

Sulaco-thanks for the report on the 210 GDHP's. Bought some of the bullets, but ain't loaded any up yet. One question though? Did ya look behind the shredded 4 milk jugs for any remains of bullet? Sounds like more milk jugs might be in order to determine if anything is left of the bullet?

It appears most bullets made for the 44 are designed hunting bullets, made for some penetration from revolvers. Am loading lighter 180 grainers for the Marlin 16 in, to moderately exceed handgun velocitys. These bullets at about 1400-1500 fps from carbine are very pleasant to shoot, and quite accurate. 10 to 11 grains of Unique (standard primer) under a 180 grain Rem sjhp or Hdy 180 xtp works very well (from pistol and carbine).

Had a beginner try these lighter carbine loads at 25 yds off hand. After a very rapid learning curve, she was hitting a steel plate consistently. She won't go near a 44 mag pistol with loads that match velocity. I don't like shooting full snort 44 mag loads from pistol either.

On another train of thougt, the new Speer 45LC 250 grain GDHP (handloaded) shows a lot of promise from a 16 inch carbine. Heavy bullet, huge HP and Speer bonded.

 

[Sulaco]

ZWolfgang, yeah, from the damage done to the jugs, I need probably at the very least two more in line (that's a lot of orange juice and milk!, it's gonna be a while!) maybe even four more for these hot GDHP's. I have another box and may do this again in a few weeks. If so, I will post the results. I looked beyond the jugs, but couldn't find anything substantial, nor anything I could claim (a messy range).

ZWolfgang, I will have to pickup some of those ProLoad Tactical Lite's and give them a shot. I am a big proponent of testing my ammo before putting it to use, so I will find something that works!

Al Thompson, you are right (as if I ever doubted you in the first place! )! I too, am a big fan of GDHP's for hunting and defensive loads. The 44 Magnum is too much for me in a handgun, but I love it out of my Trapper. I wish those ProLoad's were a heavier bullet, but I guess 200gr is ok for Whitetail.