Best defense load for .38 Special 2" snubby?

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Para Bellum

New member
What would be the best defense load for a S&W Mod 60 .38 Special with a 2" barrel?
How about the Magtech 95gr solid copper hollow points?

Thanks for your advice!
 
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newerguy

New member
Everything I own is 158 gr. LSWC or 158 gr. LSWCHP+P. If you can shoot the +P's in that little revolver, great, if not the standard pressure will do fine. Those heavy bullets don't depend as much on velocity for penetration. Many US police departments used that ammunition for their duty and off-duty revolvers for many years. I have known police officers who used both effectively in combat out of 2 inch guns.

Even with a short barrel, I'm sure those Magtechs will give you velocity, but they are going to be light on momentum as a result of their low weight.

I know you like those light all-copper bullets. Are they very popular in Europe?

Also, and this is a little off-topic, but I've always felt that Europeans felt comfortable carrying smaller, lower powered handguns than Americans. Here, no modern police department would issue a 9mm Kurtz or 7.65 pistol for general use as a primary handgun (though my father carried a .22 Magnum derringer as a backup gun in his raincoat pocket). Do you see a difference?
 
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Sodbuster

New member
Seems most of these threads are split between the 158-gr LSWC and the 135-gr Speer Gold Dot +P. I opted for the Gold Dot when I had a 60, still use it in my 642. I don't know anything about Magtech.
 
C

Coach

New member
Corbon DPX 38+P. Much less recoil than Speer GDHP. Lighter, faster and it's supposed to penetrate better.
coach
 
T

Tom2

New member
Lead bullets

I stock both the 158 lead plus p and some of the gold dots made for snubbies. The light copper bullets probably have less recoil and may be useable for defensive purposes, but I have no idea how much they penetrate or expand. Used to be there was not much advantage to light bullets in a snub, as the common hollowpoints used did not get the expansion characteristics they were designed for, due to the low muzzle velocity obtained. But now that they are designing bullets especially to expand at lower velocities, it is apparently a different situation. Same bullets in a magnum loading might blow to pieces at hi vel. The light bullets should shoot low from a snub, but at feet versus yards it might not be alot of difference. I still stick with the heavy bullets as they have a track record, and I use steel frame guns with them. Cleanup after practice will require messy and sometimes difficult lead removal from the gun. Well it is more work than with jacketed slugs. As for wadcutters, I would consider that if they were loaded to a higher speed than the common target loads, that are pretty slow.
 
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Laz

New member
I lean toward the heavy bullets also. Ditto on the 158 LSWCHP+P. Magtech makes a standard pressure semi-jacketed hollow point at 158 grains that is spec'd a bit faster than most, 807 fps from a 4 inch barrel. It might not open from a 2 inch but it has a wider meplat than most SWCs and should move a bit faster also. In a steel model 60, though, the 135 Speer +P looks real good.
 
J

Jkwas

New member
Make sure what ever you choose, your gun shoots them accurately. Snubs are funny, they don't always shoot all bullets straight. I've had some loads that fly all over the place, tumble and hit sideways. Just a word of caution.
 
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skeeter1

New member
I've tried 95gr rounds out of my Smith 60 snubby, and wasn't all that pleased. They all shot too low.

Winchester 125gr +P Silvertips seem to be just about right for HD. Too expensive for just plain practice. For practice I like my reloads or 148gr semi-wadcutters.
 
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mtnbkr

New member
I like the Speer 135gr Gold Dot load. Low recoil, low flash, hits to POA in my M37, available (unlike some of the more exotic loads or the better of the 158gr LSWC-HP loads). My second choice would be Winchester's WB 125gr HP load. However, the muzzleflash is much higher with it.

Chris
 
P

Para Bellum

New member
Those heavy bullets don't depend as much on velocity for penetration...Even with a short barrel, I'm sure those Magtechs will give you velocity, but they are going to be light on momentum as a result of their low weight.
Click to expand...
That's what I assume also and why I'm sceptical of light bullets in short barrels and weak calibers.

I know you like those light all-copper bullets. Are they very popular in Europe?
Click to expand...
where I live, in Austria, only jacketed hollowpoints are illegal. So solid copper HPs are ok (DPX, Magtech etc). EFMJ and EMB are also illegal. I prefer the EMB because it's simply perfect. 500 m/sec, 650 joule, easy to shoot, AP on hard targets and vastly expanding in soft targets. But for that little gun (for a relative of mine, I carry a Glock 26 in 9x19mm if it ought to be small), I can't get EMBs or EFMJs because the don't make them for the .38...

Also, and this is a little off-topic, but I've always felt that Europeans felt comfortable carrying smaller, lower powered handguns than Americans. Here, no modern police department would issue a 9mm Kurtz or 7.65 pistol for general use as a primary handgun (though my father carried a .22 Magnum derringer as a backup gun in his raincoat pocket). Do you see a difference?
Click to expand...
Neither in Austria. When you US Guys used .38 lead bullets, we had the Walther PPK. But when both sides started thinking. We went for 9x19mm and you for .357 Mag, .45 and then 9x19mm, .40 and .357 Sig. I don't see a big difference. Maybe the fact that you prefer wider diameter and sacrifice hard target penetration for it, when you go for .40 and .45 instead of 9x19mm. But since I consider all these calibers as fine and strong (.40, .45, 9x19, .357 Mag/Sig, 7,62x25 Tokarev) I don't see such a big difference....

I guess I'll get some old books and try out what I can get and post the tests on the web.... we'll see in a few weeks.

Thanks, guys, PB
 
D

dispatcher

New member
I'm one of the 158 grain guys. I don't believe you're going to get expansion from a snubby. I also believe that if you want to get any penetration you need a hard lead or full metal jacket bullet. Just my opinion and my practice.
 
E

elwaine

New member
What would be the best defense load for a S&W Mod 60 .38 Special with a 2" barrel?
Click to expand...

The one that you can shoot the best with.

I'm not kidding. Several studies have shown that shot placement - not caliber or number of rounds - is the number one factor in stopping a BG.

BTW, for what it's worth, in the past Masaad Ayoob has cautioned against using Mag Tech. He said they lack quality control and he prefers Glasser IF you want to shoot those special types of expensive, defensive ammo. The problem with any of those expensive rounds is that few of us can afford to shoot enough of them during practice sessions to be sure where they hit and how well we do with them.

Practice, practice, practice... that's the key. Unfortunately there is no magic bullet. It's up to you - and not what you load your gun with.
 
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Mannlicher

New member
if you can find a box or two of the old Federal NyClad 125 grain HP, that is, I believe, the best snubbie cartridge ever.
They have been discontinued for a couple of years now. I stocked up. :D
 
I

IDLH1950

New member
The one that you can shoot the best with.

I'm not kidding. Several studies have shown that shot placement - not caliber or number of rounds - is the number one factor in stopping a BG.

BTW, for what it's worth, in the past Masaad Ayoob has cautioned against using Mag Tech. He said they lack quality control and he prefers Glasser IF you want to shoot those special types of expensive, defensive ammo. The problem with any of those expensive rounds is that few of us can afford to shoot enough of them during practice sessions to be sure where they hit and how well we do with them.

Practice, practice, practice... that's the key. Unfortunately there is no magic bullet. It's up to you - and not what you load your gun with.
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
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