Berrys Hybrid Hollow Points More weights!?!?

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Marco Califo

New member
I have been eye-balling Berrys hybrid hollow-points which Berrys site lists only one weight in 9mm (125) and 40SW (180). It did occur to me that I "could" email Berrys and express my interest in 115's and 165's.

So, today, I was looking at Powder Valley's redesigned website (I preferred the old). And I noticed:
BERRYS .356 / 9MM 115 GR HHP (250) $40.90 Out of stock SKU: BRY01603
BERRYS .401 / 40 165 GR HHP (250) $46.26 Out of stock SKU: BRY01405

Next, to Berry's site (they have free shipping). They do not display those (new?) bullets and search on one of the SKU came back empty.

I did email Berrys (just now).
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
Actually, Unclenick, I think they are a new product about to be introduced. I like the idea of their hybrid hollow points but they have only been available in one weight for most calibers. I think they are filling out the product line, and am happy if that is whats happening.
Just odd that they would appear on Powder Valley first.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Call Berry's on Monday. I always call them to order anyway, because their web site requires you to register and set up an account -- no provision for guest checkout. I don't need to have yet another site for which I can't remember my log-in or password, so I prefer to just call.
 
B

black mamba

New member
Don't buy too many at first. I got a deal on 250 of them in .45 caliber, and they were hands down the least accurate bullet I've ever loaded, in any caliber.
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
I am only shopping for the 250 counts. I have not purchased any HHP yet, because I wanted faster, lighter 40SW's. They have only been available in 180 grain.
But you bring up an interesting point. If accuracy sucks, I would just pay more for Hornady XTP's which are available in many more weights.
What weight were your 45 HHP's? In 45 ACP Berrys has 185, 200 and 230 HHP. I wish they had than many 40's weights.
I have plenty of non-HP plated bullets in 9mm and 40..
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
Berrys did not respond to my email.
Powder Valley website still indicates out of stock.
I can't call either during business hours, as I started a new big $$$ job, (and 1 hour commute each way).
I searched Google today for Berrys 9mm HHP 115 gr. and found nothing.
I expect the new weight HHP's, in multiple calibers, will be announced, and reach the market, soon.
 
B

buck460XVR

New member
black mamba said:
Don't buy too many at first. I got a deal on 250 of them in .45 caliber, and they were hands down the least accurate bullet I've ever loaded, in any caliber.
Click to expand...

I suggest this to reloaders about anything new they are wanting to try. Getting a good price on 2000 bullets is not a deal iffin they don't shoot well from your gun and they sit on your shelf....or worse yet, you send sub-par ammo downrange using good powder and primers, just to use them up. Better to buy a 100 first or get a sampler pack and make sure. Same with powders. I never buy an 8# jug of anything new until I have used a one-pounder up first. Got too many 1 pounders sittin' on the shelf half to two thirds full to think about iffin' they were 8 pounders.
 
B

black mamba

New member
Marco, my inaccurate ones were the 230s in .45 caliber. I tried them with 5 different powders in 2 different guns with NO success.
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
Please tell me how and why you formed your opinion, and detected an accuracy issue? What distance, what target size. I have been able to qualify, and re-qualfy quarterly for California armed guard card/permit. I do this with plated range ammo, usually flat points, in 3 different calibers of stock Glocks, the third can be a range gun. Although, the HHP would not be allowed (exposed lead), I would expect about the same accuracy as regular plated bullets, at required distances ~7 to 25 yards, man sized silhouette targets. Bunched-up holes in the vitals, with few flyers, is passed. My criteria and methods will vary from yours.
I am not a fan of maximum weight hollow-points. I loath 180 grain 40SW that can't break 1000 fps I am not eyeing 9mm 147s; I am coveting 115 JHP I expect to fragment in tissue at 1250 fps. I feel the lighter, faster weights often delivers higher energy than slow bigger bullets. Indeed, I used an energy formula to calculate and compare. I was looking for 40SW in 155 or 165 in Berrys HHPS, rather, startled that Powder Valley catalogued them already.
I will test expansion and accuracy as two different tests, compared to equal weight Hornady XTP. If and when they are available.
And NO, IAM NOT BUYING 2000 OF ANY BULLET, EVER.
 
B

black mamba

New member
I shot the Berrys in two different 45 Colt revolvers, at velocities between 750 and 1000 fps, using powders from 700X to Accurate #7 in burn rate. 10 shot groups were fired at 15 yards off sandbags, my usual test mode. Groups ranged between 3" and 5" center to center. The same exact loads, but using X-Treme plated 230 grain HPs were fired at the same distance, with 10 shot groups ranging from 2" to 3½".
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
Thank you for answering, and detailing your test.
I thought you meant 45 ACP, not the 45 Colt revolver cartridge. If I had to carry 230 grain bullets in 45 ACP, I would not choose HP's. If I carried 45 ACP it would be loaded with 185 gr HP's.
Here is the combat course fire I am required to shoot:
"Stage 1 15 yards 6 rounds in 30 seconds
• 6 standing position
Stage 2 7 yards 14 rounds in 45 seconds (includes 2 reloads)
(load 6, 6 and 2)
• 6 standing position
• 8 kneeling position
Stage 3 7 yards 6 rounds in 10 seconds (any position)
Stage 4 7 yards 12 rounds in 25 seconds (includes reload)
(load 6 and 6)
• 6 strong hand unsupported
(reload and switch hands)
• 6 weak hand unsupported
Stage 5 5 yards 6 rounds
• 3 rounds in 4 seconds (2 stages)
Stage 6 3 yards 6 rounds
• 2 rounds in 3 seconds (3 stages)"
I understand your results. If, and when, I can get the HHP I will try something similar to my course of fire. Like 40SW, 155 gr PFP, 155 XTP, 155 HHP
Same routine with 9mm 115 HHP, but 115 STHP AND 115 Ranier PRN (because I have those on hand). That may, or may not, tell me something. Even if I had similar accuracy results to you, I believe I could still qualify. If defending my home or dog while hiking I think I would be firing at 3-7 yards range where most shootings take place.
 
G

Grey_Lion

New member
black mamba said:
Don't buy too many at first. I got a deal on 250 of them in .45 caliber, and they were hands down the least accurate bullet I've ever loaded, in any caliber.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering why you expect any serious range or ballistic accuracy from a pistol round that basically has a ram scoop for a nose?

You don't find competition shooters using hollow point pistol ammo....

A pistol is there to get you to your rifle - nothing more - close quarters -

Most pistol confrontations happen, statistically, between zero and 15 feet.....
 
U

Unclenick

Staff
Actually, many bullets, including some .22 rimfire shoot more accurately than the solids. They just don't have as much range because of the lower ballistic coefficient. The accuracy seems to me likely to be due to there being less inertia in the nose contributing to the centrifugal effect during coning motion in initial yaw. it may also be the slightly longer bearing surface helps, but having shot a number of the 60 grain subsonic Aquila bullets, I don't think that's the main thing. The caveat is that the hollow points have to be symmetrical. If you have a bullet spinner and select out the well-balanced ones first, you will find this out.

While I subscribe to Cooper's admonition that the role of a sidearm in combat is to fight your way to a rifle, most personal encounters are over long before you have time to do that, as, outside of your home or a theater of combat, rifles are not normally conveniently around to fight your way to.

When I knew him, then in his 70's, Jeff Cooper would occasionally demonstrate he could still hit a teacup at 50 yards with his 1911. I can hit a row of poppers at 100 yards with mine at a deliberate pace. You just have to remember hardball will fall about a foot going that far and aim just over the head to compensate. Otherwise, it is no more difficult than hitting the 9-ring on a conventional pistol 50-yard target, and from prone is not all that extremely challenging if your gun's accuracy is good.

The size of a popper above the front sight will give you a reasonable range estimate, and I drilled a 45-yard popper mostly hidden by brush in one of the wadis at Gunsite in my first class there. It's not a skill you have a high probability of using, but one of Cooper's other teachings was to be a better shot than your opponent so you can reliably place hits on him from a greater distance than he can reliably place hits on you from.
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
That is the Hornady Action Pistol bullet line, and they non-expanding hollow-point bullets for the shooting sports. Midsouth sells 14 different Hornady .400 bullets:
7 are HAP
4 are FMJ type
3 Extreme Terminal Performance
 
R

rogn

New member
Ive experimented about with the 0.401" 180gr HHP and with a stout but not excessive load of BlueDOT I can get velocities close to 1300fps(still in the cast bullet range). This along with benched groups in the 1" range at 30 yds. The primary purpose was to see if the bullets were useable for deer sized animals. I could shoot them at PB range into a deer's skull and the bullet would go thru a citron(hard melon) and imbed itself in hard ground. They would loose about 25% weight but otherwise remained intact. The excellent accuracy is truly an eyeopener.
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
You must be loading 10mm. At that velocity, I like the 180's, but they are too slow in 40SW, which maxes out at 1150 with Longshot.
 
M

Marco Califo

New member
Berrys (Sales) responded to a 2nd email and said they have no plans to release other .40 HHP bullet weights. They did not respond to the Powder Valley product listing I posed in the same email.
 
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