Beretta 90-Two

[croyance]

I happened to be in a gun store that had one in stock - and the Beretta salesman there with his own.
It shoots very well. Nice small groups.
The grip area is smaller. The shape is not that of the Vertec, but rather that of the Browning HiPower. Good size for all hands.
The grips are interchangable. The grip area slips out, not just the backstrap.
It will take 92 magazines. Their own magazines are 18 rounds, with larger capacity on the way.
The frame rail does ruin the lines of the classic 92 shape and the rail cover does too.
The weight feels like it is mostly metal. Maybe because of the grip, but it just feels quicker in the hand.
The sights, front and back, are standard dovetails. So those three-dot sights can be changed for your favorite.
The F model is available first. There will be a wait on the G model. Forties out soon.

Also, the magazines will fit in a CX4 Storm because of that 92 compatability.

Other news: The PX4 Storm will be available in .45 ACP. Right now it is in Army SOCOM testing. A big Army order will speed up production. I think capacity is 12 or 14 rounds.
Anecdotally, the CX4 carbine deals with poor maintainence fine. I got this second hand from the salesman, who said that was the experience of a PD that issues them in squad cars, but keeps 20 for training and evaluation.

He said that July 15 was Beretta National Range day and he'd be back with all his goodies. Range time for all that want to try out Beretta inventory. So call your range and see if they have a Beretta salesperson stopping by on that day.

 

[choover]

Price?

 

[croyance]

I think MSRP is around $700. I also expect it to drop like the PX4's price has. Those used to go for a shade under $600 (depending on your local market) but now are $500.

 

[Chaingunner]

That 90two is SEXY.


Should 'sexy' be used with guns...? Anyway.

When's going to be made available to the public? I think I want me one.

 

[STAGE 2]

The 90 two is a solution to a non existent problem.... unless you're Buck Rodgers.

 

[croyance]

Chaingunner - it was actually on the shelf when I was in the store. I just happened to get in when the factory salesman was there with his too.

Stage 2:
No its not. The problem with guns is that they don't wear out. The gun buying public is shrinking too. The real problem is remaining a viable buiness.
Its not like light bulbs where you can make a more fragile product. There would be injury settlements right and left.
Or do you consider all those flavors of 1911 an actual solution to a real problem?
Great, you can quote Cooper. Now can you actually place it in real context? Make it mean something.
Can a 90-Two be considered more of a Buck Rogers gun than a Glock or any polymer gun out there? Guess that entire market segment that has been embraced by the gun buying public don't know what they want or need.
Don't police ever have the problem of not having a light rail on their service weapon?
Does everybody find that the Beretta 92 fits all hands? Or is it too large for some? This grip closely replicates that of the Browning HiPower, which seems to fit many sizes of hands. So what if the Vertec exists? So does the problem.

 

[Chaingunner]

+1 funny grip size

I find that the way the Beretta 92 naturally sits in my hand causes me to use too much trigger finger. I have to turn the pistol slightly to the left to get it to sit right, which was a bit uncomfortable at first, but now I'm used to it (and I shoot better, now, too). Having adjustable grips would be nice.

 

[STAGE 2]

Like I said, the 90-two is a solution to a nonexistent problem. Its fine that you like it, but one person isnt a market.

I'm not sure what cooper has to do with any of this, but I can only wonder how long you have been around guns to make the statement that they dont wear out. Every kind of machine wears out. Semi auto pistols exceptionally so.

The 90-two, aside from having either love it or hate it looks, (and from what I've seen most fall in the hate it category) does nothing better than the standard 92fs. The problem that most have with the grip is actually with the reach of the trigger and not the width of the grip. The interchangeable grips on this new pistol may help with the problem, but I don't think it will revolutionize anything.

Feel free to disagree, but from what I've seen on the several gun boards these aren't going to fly off the shelves with the exception of diehard beretta collectors and those who have the "I gotta have then next new thing" syndrome.

Sit and wait. Time will tell.

 

[Surefire_U2]

^I certainly don't find the 90-two appealing. Butt ugly looks IMO, and relatively the same price as the current 92s. I'd rather Beretta just make minor tweaks to the current 92 series, such as grip reduction. For me, a Brigadier slide (for improved durability and sight flexibility) and M-compact frame (smaller single-stack grip) would be a great matchup. OTOH, this plastic dust cover look of the 90-two completely lacks the graceful lines on the all-metal 92s, IMO. If the 90-two was significantly cheaper and/or performs much better, I could learn to accept the ugly looks...however I have my doubts...

 

[croyance]

You are right, one person doesn't make the market. That doesn't mean problems don't exist.
What does Cooper have to do with anything? You quote him yet you have no idea?
Sure everything mechanical wears out. But most guns aren't used like cars. Without the volume of shooting that competative shooters do, most guns will outlive generations of owners.

The interchangable grip isn't the solution to anything. The fact that the grips that already come installed fit most people is. The rest just exists. As I pretty much said.

Now the question of the gun selling or enough people wanting it is entirely seperate from whether or not it solves existing problems. Market forces are more about perception and not necesarily about reality. The fact that Ron Popiel is a millionaire proves that.
Will they fly off the shelves? I doubt it. The PX4 looks like a refinement of the Cougar which most did not have. The 92 is pretty common though and this is a refinement of that. Nicer trigger, more accurate, etc. Which doesn't mean Cooper applies.

Surefire, I agree on the looks. It is like a woman with graceful curves with a large square jaw.
I think the main problem of large sales is that there are quite a few people with Beretta 92s or preconcieved notions about the gun. OTOH I bet a lot of the same machining is done. So the problem was probably the increased cost of a new design vs. the probable increase in sales compared to a refinement of an old design.

 

[choover]

I think that there is a gun already available to solve any problems..I think it is more a matter of the fact that most of us gun nuts enjoy a selection and options

 

[croyance]

That is the American way. How many ways do we need to have coffee, for instance?

I think in every niche there are several redundant guns, even when you take price into account. But we certainly keep the gun industry alive by having multiples within each niche.
But seriously, how many versions of a full sized 1911 with essentially the same features can the market hold? Beyond having a different roll mark, what kind of options does that really offer us?

Well, at least I can't question why women have so many types of shoes. "How many pairs of shoes do you need?"
"How many subcompact CHL guns do you need?"
"Good point, let's go out for dinner."

 

[Paochow]

The Ninety-TWO introduction finally pushed me over the fence to buy a 92FS, while I still could get the classic version

 

[Berettafan21]

Stage 2
I have to disagree with your statement about this being a solution to a non exixtant problem. The 90 Two as has been stated offers interchangable grips which facilitate the pistol being comfortable for more people. I have heard people say that the 92/96 grip was to large in diameter to feel comfortable in their hand. In addition to this the 90 Two offers a contained guide rod recoil spring assembly not present on the 92, this will help prevent lost parts during field stripping (the voice of experice speaking here). The interigal recoil buffer of the 90 Two was not present on the 92 and helps make the firearm more controlable even with the reduced weight. Capacity has been increased on the 90 Two by 2 rounds in 9mm and 1 in .40. Weight has been reduced from 34.4 ounces to 32.5 ounces. I feel that both of these last two issues needed to be addressed because other manufactures have done much better on keeping capacity up and weight down compared to the original 92.

 

[STAGE 2]

I'm gonna take a guess here and asssume you like berettas Well I do too. I think the 92 is a pretty darn good platform for 9mm. I also think that this new 90 two will be a marketing disaster.

Why, well, as I said before the issue with some people isnt the grip size but the trigger reach. having interchangeable grips will only remedy this for a small percentage of the already small percentage of people that have the problem. As for the lost parts during field stripping, sure things happen once in a while, but if you're constantly losing things by breaking the pistol into only 5 parts then maybe you shoudl find another hobby. Its pretty hard to lose a guide rod or a spring.

As for the recoil buffer, I doubt that it will make a noticable difference. Berettas have some of the lightest recoil of any 9mm Ive shot. Because this new pistol is lighter, the difference between it and the heavier 92 should be negligible.

Capacity is not an issue as there are 17 rd mags available for the 92. Also as I mentioned above weight reduction is not always a good thing. The lighter the pistol the lighter the felt recoil. In a full size duty/military gun, concealibility isn't a very big concern so its probably better to have an easier shooting pistol.

I'm not saying its a bad gun, I'm just saying all they did was make the 92 more complicated and a whole lot uglier.

 

[hot sauce]

I played w/one earlier today at the gun store. I liked it but for me its got to be stainless. All stainless without the plastic controls. A centurion model would be even better! I liked the 90-two but I bought a PX-4 9mm instead.

 

[croyance]

From what I've observed in watching people shoot, more people have a problem with the Beretta 92/96 trigger reach than those who realize they have a problem.

But the better fitting grip (and perhaps they shortened the trigger) fixes that. The interchangable grips don't need to play a part in that.

 

[HorseSoldier]

As for the recoil buffer, I doubt that it will make a noticable difference. Berettas have some of the lightest recoil of any 9mm Ive shot. Because this new pistol is lighter, the difference between it and the heavier 92 should be negligible.

I don't know if the recoil buffer is aimed at the low-mileage civilian shooter or departmental purchasing types who may have grown a smidgeon tired of having locking blocks break with depressing regularity.

 

[Berettafan21]

Stage 2 I guess maybe I should restate that for me the 90 Two is an improvement, on a design that I love. You are right higher cap mags are avaliable I have 12 round Mec-Gar's for my 96. It would be nice though if my 96 had come with them. You are also right about the weight it can be good and bad. My thoughts on this are Beretta has been largely bumped out of the Law enforcement market by new lighter pistols and that maybe this reduction it weight would give those who prfer a lighter pistol another option. but this is more for the carry a lot shoot a little crowd. As for the buffer system if my 96 had come with one I wouldn't have to have put one on. Another thing that appeales to me is the grip I have smaller hands and the 96 feels good in my hand but I thinks that a slightly smaller grip might feel even better. Am i going to go out and buy one right away no. If it had been out when I bought y 96 would I have bought one definatly. For me I feel that it just has better and more features that I prefer in a pistol. I hope for Beretta's sake that there are more people like me than like you, but only time will tell. Thanks for sharing your insight into this it is always nice to have a different perspective to look at.

 

[IM_Lugger]

It's no secret that I'm a Beretta fan

Although I think the new 90two will be a good gun (like all 92FS pistols) I prefer the looks of the traditional 92FS. BTW the rail cover on the 90two is removable; so the gun itself looks a bit like a Vertec or SD model. It's too bad Beretta USA has decided to discontinue Inox models since I'd rather have an all stainless92FS than a 90two....