bent ear on 1851 Colt loading ram

[foolzrushn]

bent tab on 1851 Colt loading ram

I noticed that my loading ram was binding a little, and examined it a little closer. After removing the ram from the barrel, I could see that the flat (tab?) of the ram with the slotted hole was not straight with the ram body. It almost looks like the slotted hole is punched through the flat before any hardening of the ram, causing a bent ear, which was not straightened before hardening.

I was wondering what others may have come up with for a fix. I am thinking that trying to straighten it now would break the ram. I have given some thought to filing or grinding the flat to align with the ram body and then using washers to take up the slack. What is commonly done?

 

[James K]

Can you provide a picture of the problem area? It may be me, but I am having a hard time visualizing the condition. Anyway, don't do anything drastic until you get some (better) responses.

Jim

 

[foolzrushn]

bent loading ram description

Yes, I probably should have posted a picture. But since I have two pistols ( one Navy Arms from the '90's and another newer Pietta) with the same problem, I took it to be a rather common manufacturing shortcut by Pietta. Someone on this forum said that these Italian replicas are just partially finished kits, and I agree completely. You just have to accept that as part of the "fun" and go forward.

The ram end that pushes the ball into the chamber of the cylinder, is basically a smaller rod or cylinder with a cupped end to push the ball. The cylinder shape is the major part or length ofthe ram.

The end of the ram that is opposite the ball, has a 1/8" thick flat tab with a slotted hole punched through it. When I remove the ram and hold it so I am looking at the narrow edge of the flat tab, I can see that the hole punching has caused the tab to be bent. The edge of the tab is not aligned with a centerline through the cylinder portion of the ram.

It would make sense for Pietta to punch the slot before the ram was hardened, but would have been nice for them to straighten it before hardening the ram (or change the process).

What is left is something I would like to straighten to provide a straighter slot for the screw that fastens the ram to the loading lever, which takes quite a bit of pressure. However now the ram is hardened and might break. Has anyone tried to bend this straight?

There is also the problem that the flat sides of the tab don't rest flat in the recess for the tab in the lever. This will cause more wear and is what caused me to notice it initially.

I thought of reheating and bending but would not know how to regain the temper. A new piece from Pietta would probably be bent. What say ye?

 

[bedbugbilly]

You really need to follow James's suggestion and post some photos of just what you are referring to. I'm reading and re-reading your post and I think your use of terms such as "flat tabs", etc. is somewhat confusing and it would be better to see just what you are referring to.

The way I am interpreting your description, you are talking about the "slot" on the end of the ram (portion that pushes ball into chamber)? Is this what you are referring to? You also keep using the term "punched" which has me scratching my head - as they say . . a picture is worth a thousand words.

Is this "defect" causing a problem in terms of loading or usage? Or is it something "cosmetic" that bugs you? You say you noticed it "binding" a little - ws this after you loaded and maybe used a little more ramming pressure thannoral? Any chance you bent something in the process of loading?

What brand of revolver is it? Uberti, Pietta . . . another brand? If it's a Pietta or Uberti . . . you may need to order a replacement part. All depends on what "part" you are talking about though.

 

[maillemaker]

I think what he is saying is that the end of the loading ram opposite of the ball-pushing end is bent.

He is saying that the slot (for the loading lever linkage) is punched into the flag of that ram, and is bending it. I don't know if it is punched or machined. But anyway. If the flat end of the ram is bent and rubbing something, you should see evidence of that rubbing where it is interfering

You could simply take a file to the offending high spot until the rubbing goes away. Obviously you will lose the faux case hardening colors where you file, but you will lose that as the part wears naturally anyway.

Steve

 

[maillemaker]

I think this is what he is talking about.

This picture includes the loading lever; ignore that.

Steve

 

[maillemaker]

You can see the flat end of the ram more clearly in this picture:

Steve

 

[foolzrushn]

Billy

Sorry my 332 words were not clear enough. I am not able to post a picture at this time, but may be able to do so later. I agree that 'a picture is worth'.......so I am a little short. Still a textual description might do in a pinch.

Maybe I am the only one to have these bent parts. I thought perhaps it was common with a fix.

I thought I had covered most of your questions. Both are Pietta (mentioned several times), one under the guise of Navy Arms.

The tab with the 'punched' slot is on the opposite end from the one that swages the ball, as stated. I am guessing that the slot is 'punched' versus drilled because it would be difficult to drill such an elongated hole (slot), and because the edges of the hole look punched. Would be cheaper too. I believe this process probably bent the parts. Bad tooling....crazy Italians.

 

[foolzrushn]

Yes number 24. You caught me typing. If the ram is not really hard then I can just heat and bend it straight.

 

[foolzrushn]

I also forgot to mention that the Pietta which caused me to notice both ram's flaws, was NOS and unfired. At first I suspected hidden rust, the lever was dragging so much.

 

[foolzrushn]

Steve

Thanks for the picture. I take it this something no one worries about.

 

[maillemaker]

I am guessing that the slot is 'punched' versus drilled because it would be difficult to drill such an elongated hole (slot), and because the edges of the hole look punched.

It could be milled, but as you say, you should be able to look at the inside and if it was punched out there will be a break-out line.

You are right - they probably bent the part during punching. You could try heating it and bending it, or just file it, since that portion of the ram is hidden.

Steve

 

[James K]

I doubt that hole is punched. It is more likely milled as the originals were.

As to the end being bent, it is hard to see how that could happen, but it should be easy to fix, just clamp the flat end in a padded (brass or copper jaw) vise and tap the side of the rammer with a plastic or lead hammer. Those are fairly soft under the case hardening (if indeed they are actually hardened at all) so they should be easy to straighten up.

Jim

 

[maillemaker]

As to the end being bent, it is hard to see how that could happen, but it should be easy to fix, just clamp the flat end in a padded (brass or copper jaw) vise and tap the side of the rammer with a plastic or lead hammer. Those are fairly soft under the case hardening (if indeed they are actually hardened at all) so they should be easy to straighten up.

All of the "case hardening" on repros is "color case hardening" - it's fake. I don't know if the parts themselves are steel or heat treated. They could even be castings in which case I would be very careful about trying to hammer or bend them back into shape.

Again looking into the slot will tell you if it's a casting, or machined, or punched. If it's punched you will see the break line:

If the slot has draft (taper) to it, it's cast. If the slot is smooth, it's probably machined.

Steve

 

[bedbugbilly]

foolsrushn - try the fix already mentioned and see if it will bend back straight.

If it still is a bothersome thing to you when loading - you might check places like Lodgewood Mfg., S & S Firearms, Dixie or even give some place like Cimarron or Taylors to see if they would happen to have a replacement in stock. You might also keep an eye out on flabbay . . . revolvers are often "parted out" and I've seen loading levers listed a number of times - you'd just have to verify that it is Pietta - same as yours.

Please don't take offense to my post as none was intended towards you. I think we were all having a problem trying to visualize just what you were talking about. maillemaker came to the rescue with the "blow up".

If you go to bend it or file it, you might dis-assemble it and rube some black "magic marker" on the part you think is rubbing. Work it some and if it's rubbing, it should take the magic marker off to show you where.

Good luck and let us know how you come out on it.

 

[foolzrushn]

@bedbugbilly

Certainly no offense taken! I was just disappointed in my poor wordsmithing skills, in painting an adequate word picture. After poking the aforementioned 332 words one character at a time on my dumb TV remote, I was cranky. I much prefer to use a keyboard.

I may yet get some pictures to resolve (or at least get a consensus on) whether or not the slot is punched. Also whether if punched, that perhaps caused the bending of the ram (flag, tab, ear or whatever it is called).

I did notice that the rams from the Navy Arms (Pietta AH) Colt 1851 and Cabella's (Pietta BA) 1860 were a slightly different length, but both bent to some degree. I find the ram length difference interesting because the frames appear to be almost identical except for two additional screws, and cut-offs on both sides of the bottom of the recoil shield on the 1860. Don't understand why, on either one of those things. Perhaps someone will enlighten me.

I haven't posted pix before, and am not sure what size is used. I will have to read up on that in the site instructions.

 

[bedbugbilly]

foolzrushn - that's the one thing that you'll have to look for if you do try to get a replacement - check the dimensions, etc.

I had an old Richland Arms (Blissfield,MI) 1858 Remington given to me by the widow of a very good friend that I used to shoot with back in the early 60s. Long story short . his sone took it apart and lost the loading lever assembly. Can't figure out how you "loose" that but he did. I liked for years for one to replace it. I finally found a "kit" gun (Richland Arms) that Doc Hoy had and bought it from him just for the loading lever. You'd think it would slip right in since they came from the same factory - nope! Length was correct but the ram was a different diameter - fortunately a tad bit larger than what I needed. I just chucked it in the drill press and used emery cloth until I had it poised down to the correct size - had to reverse it in the chuck but it worked O.K. The Remington wasn't really worth a whole lot but it has a lot of sentiment value for me so was glad to get it "complete" again.

Hopefully you won't have to look for a replacement and can get your's worked out O.K.

 

[foolzrushn]

First let me apologize for the late posting of the pictures. It has been a learning experience. If you have read the former posts then this might make sense.

My contention is that Pietta's manufacturing process slightly bends the loading ram, when the oblong slot for the screw connecting the ram proper and the handle is made. The amount of bending varies and probably is not a concern to most folks, however this last one caused my loading ram/lever to bind, and I finally discovered that it was the bent tab causing the binding. If it begins to affect the function....then it's too much in my book.

The bend is more pronounced on the .36 caliber Colt Pietta ram tab, but the question of whether the slot was punched, is shown better by the .44 caliber Colt Navy Arms ram. There are pictures of both rams.

Here is the .36 Pietta bent ram tab that brought this to my attention. Although it might not look like much, it made the ram drag. The loading lever has some stress upon it if you use it as I do and so I didn't like the dragging.

Here is the material break line inside the slot, where the material was torn away during the punching process. Maillemaker refers to this in one of his posts. Although the screw will wear the inside of the slot smooth eventually. I prefer to file a little on the 'push' (forward) side of the slot to smooth it and save wear on the shank of the screw. I had already done some filing before the picture so it was more evident before.

Here is the bottom of the Navy Arms ram tab that has been filed and shows that there was metal pushed out of the edges of the punched slot by the process. The slight indentation of the slot and rounded corners on the other side, the break line internal to the slot and the protruding edge on this side of the bottom of the tab convince me that it is punched.

What bothered me might not bother anyone else. But I was looking for a fix on this.
FRN

 

[maillemaker]

Nice update. I'd say you are right that it was bend during punching.

Steve