Being PC in California--grrrr!

[Guy B. Meredith]

A real life situation question of legal and PC that could only come up in California. Or Mass, or....

I decided to put a couple of revolvers and 700 or 800 rounds of .38 spl in the trunk of my car at noon as my next and last customer is located just over the hill from one of the ranges I frequent in Concord (see Roques gallery thread).

As I drove into the customer's parking lot the battery gave a last gasp. I figured I was probably in for an alternator, belt or something attached and had been driving on the battery.

I went to the Saturn dealership in Concord. Rather getting a rental car as intended they said they could fix it in a couple of hours so I hung around. The revolvers were in the trunk locked up in a tool box per California regulations, but easily accessible anyone walking by. I also wanted to grab something to eat at a restaurant a few blocks away as I was low on blood sugar.

The quandry was wondering whether taking the tool box containing the revolvers is considered concealed carry. There is no ammo in the box again as it is used to carry in the car per California regs. The dealership did not seem to be axious to store them away in a safe place, at least not the gentleman I expressed my concern to.

The next thing to worry about is whether the restaurant workers in the spirit of ani-terrorist caution would ask why someone obviously not using tools would carry a tool box. They didn't.

Any California LEOs on the forum that can advise on such situations?

 

[twoblink]

I smell a "you are f*ed if you do, f*ed if you don't" situation here.

Leave it in the car, someone finds it, calls the cops. One of the laws I've heard about here (I can't verify) is that you can only have guns in your car if you are going to the range, or going home from the range. How would they prove otherwise??!?!

If you take it with you, and someone sees you carrying a "suspicious" package, and call the cops, that's a CCW violation. There's no way out of it.

My friend's car got stuck yesterday at his store. So we went at 2am after he closed the store, and tried to start it. This is the plaza that got robbed, and there were all these wannabe gangsters hanging out front. He didn't feel safe, neither did I. I would have loved to bring my gun with me. Something small, like my 357Snubbie. That would have done the job. Because I'm sure half of them had guns on them. Well, I might be in trouble if the Irvine police (who did pass by) caught me with my gun on me, but if I didn't, and the gangbangers started trouble, my life might be in danger.

Which begs the question, how do you protect yourself from these situations? The answer is, you don't. The law is structured so you cannot protect yourself.

But if you want to bitch about it, just remember, these laws are in place for YOUR protection, and of course "FOR THE CHILDREN". :barf: :barf: :barf:

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Whoa!! Gangbangers in Irvine, like no way Dude. Omigod I feel another paradign shift coming on. Worse than I imagine LSD to be....


Yeah, it is not PC to stop anywhere except at your home and the range with firearms in the car. Starbucks, Peets and Taco Bell are out. I would have been in trouble if someone had a need to check in the car while I was at the customer site, but just couldn't handle the thought of 50 miles (home and back) in commute traffic.

They want me to work tomorrow without having asked my opinion or plans. I got ticked and decided to rock Mr. Prissy and the rest by telling them I would be at the range and they could page me.

Maybe when I get there tomorrow I will "remember" that I'm not allowed to stop with the revolvers in the car. Would suit me.

 

[Airwolf]

I have a question related to all this.

I've just spent 20 minutes reading through the firearms laws for CA. http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/dwc.htm and it seems to be completly dominated by "weapons concealable upon the person". I can't seem to find squat about transporting or keeping rifles/shotguns in the vehicle.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/travel.htm states:

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is considered an assault weapon in California must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.

Any legal types here have a clue if keeping an unloaded shotgun/rifle aboard a vehicle is specfically prohibited.

After reading the Al-Queda training manual and experts review of suicide attacks they've trained for, I don't think pepper spray and harsh language is going to provide any sort of fighting chance should the SHTF while out and about

 

[moredes]

Hmm. Got me, too. I'd call the CHP, get a name and badge number, and ask for a clarification.

As for the scenario in the Irvine parking lot, the rule is, "rather be tried by twelve than carried by six".

 

[Pendragon]

As for the 2:00 AM situation:

If you think it is dangerous enough that you might need a gun, you ought not go.

The gun will not protect you from being shot and even if you do prevail, you will still be facing major major hassles.

You could not wait 6 or 8 hours to get the car and avoid a troublesome situation?

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Airwolf's comments remind my to ask whether anyone knows whether it is legal to openly carry a handgun in California and whether it is possible to do so without being arrested for brandishing.

Maybe I could have just stuck the revolvers in my belt in the open and been okay? Or more likely in their respective rugs?

 

[DaleA]

I think Pendragon speaks common sense here.

I really do like the idea that:
"I should be able to go anywhere I want without being hassled and woe be onto him/her who tries to mess with me for I shall put the big hurt on them."
But I don't think it's practical.

Likewise I don't carry because in my city it's not possible for an average Joe/Jane to get carry permit.

What burns me is that stable, "good citizens" with wife, kids, house, steady job etc. can be intimidated by the law way more that the bad guys.

If the police caught me packing (and they probably would, which is why I don't) the full weight of the law would come down around my head and shoulders. I would face legal problems that could mess up the entire rest of my life. I would NOT be able to plead it down by confessing to something else or trade some information, or turn in somebody else to get a reduced sentence. I wouldn't be able to skip town etc. In short, in my case the law would work the way it is suppose to. A LOT of the time when dealing with genuine bad guys it seems the illegal possession of the firearm doesn't seem to cause many problems.

Example: The Minneapolis newspaper published a picture of 4 youth in the park. One of them had their coat open and you could see they had a firearm. Lots of laws being broken here. The police said they couldn't do anything based on the photo except keep an eye on them in the future.

 

[4V50 Gary]

If they're empty...

Put a lock on your toolbox or use a briefcase. Concealed is generally "on the person" and carrying an unloaded firearm in a locked container would make it difficult for the DA to establish any sort of criminal intent. In fact, since the car is being serviced, it may even be negligent to leave a bunch of guns in the trunk.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

DaleA,

The problem there is that being arrested and going through the mill is life style for the criminal. Not intimidating, just another hassle. For responsible citizens it is a major strike against your image, position and way of living.

4V50Gary,

The toolbox was locked and empty of ammo. I did have a concern next about the restaurant employees demanding to look inside and going into emotional panic.

 

[riverdog]

Was the car a Saturn? Does it have a trunk? Lock the tool-box, leave it in your trunk and go have lunch. There's nothing in the trunk to fix so there's no reason for them to have the key.

I have a pick-up with a hard fiberglass "Snug Top" lid over the box, lockable. When I go to the shop for routine maintenance, they get the ignition/door key only, there's no reason for them to go into the box so it stays locked. I am in CA and if I had a problem coming back from the range, I'd just leave everything locked up in the back.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Riverdog,

The Saturn has an inside release for the trunk. The cars waiting service are not in plain view of the employees, nor could I say all the employees gave me a warm cozy feeling. A lockable portion of the car would have resolved the problem as would a sympathetic response from the dealership reps.

This situation is just one of those you never expect and don't plan for. Now I am a bit more aware of potentials than I was yesterday.

 

[pax]

"...as would a sympathetic response from the dealership reps."

That, actually, might be the crux of your problem, right there.

First off, I think you might have made a tactical error in informing them what was in the tool box that you were concerned about. No sense in alarming the sheep! Probably should've said something along the lines of, "I'm very concerned about my toolbox right here, I'd like it locked in a safe place..." Unless you told 'em what was in it, there's no reason they'd turn you down for such a reasonable request.

However, since they did turn you down, I'd suggest using a different dealership in the future -- and writing them a letter telling 'em why you are unhappy with their service. Surely you aren't the only person to have a car break down with valuables in the trunk.

pax

If you are not making anyone mad, you are not getting anything done. -- Paul McNicol

 

[45 Long Colt]

I know this is not possible for everybody, but for myself: I will NOT live in California.

I do visit there occasionally, but briefly, and when it's time to go I'm always grateful to put that state line behind me.

 

[Airwolf]

45 Long Colt:

Believe me, I've had enough of this state (about 35 of my 45 years). I've also lived in OKC, Hawaii, SFO, Boston and MS. and had the good fortune to visit all of the lower 48.

My tolerance with the politics, laws and the extreme level of BS in this state has been exhausted. I admire all those that are taking a stand and staying to fight, but the influx of illegal aliens (and the democrats doing everything they can to grant them the privileges and rights of citizens) all but guarantee that we will not see a swing back to conservative values in my lifetime.

My GF and I are making plans to depart in the next 6 months. I only hope I can get my house fixed up and sold before things hit bottom.

 

[riverdog]

Aren't the trunk releases able to be disabled from inside the trunk, requiring a key to open the lid? If not, that's a serious ding against the Saturn. A car with an unlockable trunk ...

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Riverdog,

The Saturn does not have a release lock. However cars that do have a means of disabling the release have pull down back seats. Trunks on many cars are just not anywhere near secure unless the rest of the car is locked. Best not to consider it particularly secure unless you are in or around the car keeping watch.

 

[El Rojo]

I think you were being a little too paranoid concerning the employees of the restaurant demanding to know what is in your toolbox. I would bet anything, they wouldn't give a squat. They might casually ask, "Why do you have that tool box?" Casually reply, "My car is getting fixed and I didn't want to leave these tools under their care." Most likely response would be...... "Oh." End of story.

Handguns locked up in the trunk are not going to do you any good. You are going to be able to drive away in the time it takes to retrieve them.

45 Long Colt No offense, but what was your point in posting that? The guy asked a question. We know our state sucks. Why do you have to put in some drabble about you not wanting to be here? Were one of his options in the situation to move out of state? No? Then don't bother posting. Again don't take offense, I just get peeved by people who reply to these PRK threads with some nonsense about moving out or not wanting to live here and adding absolutely nothing to the orginal discussion. We live here and we have to deal with it. I am not going to be able to move, so I have to try to change the system. I can't do that with all of the good people tucking their tails and moving out. So your repsone just hit a nerve. Again, don't take offense, I am just ranting. I guess it is like you are rubbing it in my face in a way. We know we are screwed without you pointing it out to us.

 

[45 Long Colt]

El Rojo-

Sorry I touched a nerve.

No offense was intended.