Bear:is the9mm enough

J

jar

New member
Bears are big & mean enough to carry whatever they want. If they want to carry a 9x19 then that's fine.

There is the Right to Arm Bears but is there the need?
 
C

CDR_Glock

New member
xandi said:
So I was wornderig

Would a bullet like say the these from Lehigh defense

https://www.lehighdefense.com/produ...reme-penetrator-ammunition?variant=1066222584

Change the Perception on the 9x19 Being enough for a bear?
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Uh, No.

You need cast lead bullets with enough penetration and kinetic energy for a head shot.

I recall seeing some 4-3-1 formula. At least 4x caliber, 300 grain minimum at 1000 feet per second minimum for bear. But I can’t recall where I read it, now, as I have read many books and articles....

My gun of choice, even though I’m in black bear territory, is my Ruger Alaskan 454 Casull. I carry Buffalo Bore 360 grain cast lead bullets. 6 shots as opposed to my 5 shot 460 or 500 Magnum.

I can shoot my 44 Magnum 629 Compact quickly and on target, too, but I prefer a lot more punch with a 454 Casull. The heavier frame has been more than adequate for my ability to put out 2-3 shots on target at 15 yards.

Edit:

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2014/8/13/packing-pistols-in-bear-country/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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B

Bottom Gun

New member
I don’t think it matters whether the bullet is lead or the same weight in a solid copper bullet.

After a close encounter with a large and very bold black bear, I switched from carrying Gold Dots to the Lehigh bullets for my field carry load in my .357 Sig. I think the Lehigh bullets make better sense in case I have to use them on a large wild animal.

I see that Black Hills has started producing loads using Lehigh bullets. They call that line the “Honey Badger”.
 
C

CDW4ME

New member
No.
I'd prefer as big a bullet as I could quickly shoot and capacity aint a negative.
Glock 20 is choice #1 (Glock 21 in 2nd place)
If under capacity limit or need smaller grip then a 1911 in 10mm or 45 acp (4th place)
 
B

Bowdog

New member
No 9mm is not enough for bear. If it is all you have at the time, go for it. But .44 mag or better in a hand guns. I have taken one with a .30-.30 when deer hunting. Did feel under gunned at the time.
 
T

TXAZ

New member
Depends on shot placement. 1 in the pupil of each eye, sure.
Otherwise I’d prefer to either not be there or have at round that ends in “BMG”.

:)
 
K

kenny53

New member
9mm for bear, I don't think that would my first choice. Maybe if I had a 32 round magazine. You want penetration if shooting bear. 9mm with defensive ammo may not get deep enough on a bear to do real damage. I would vote for 30-06.
 
T

T. O'Heir

New member
Those Xtreme Penetrators are somebody's idea of cool. They don't make the bullet penetrate any more than a regular jacket. The progressive nose geometry stuff is marketing BS. And cast lead bullets break up upon impact.
"...Bears are big & mean..." You really need to learn more about bears. Yogi is usually neither unless he/she is a griz or brownie. The average adult male black bear weighs about 300 pounds. If his diet is good. And they're smaller in Georgia.
A huge black bear weighs about 300 Kilos(660 pounds). The world record was a road kill weighing 700- 800 pounds. And he's rarely mean unless you PO him. In which case, you will never be able to recognize what you've done, draw, aim and fire accurately enough with any hand gun for it to help you. Yogi can run at 35 MPH. That's 100 yards in less than 6 seconds.
And no a 9mm isn't enough. The heaviest bullet is a 147. A Hornady XTP has 310 ft-lbs of energy AT THE MUZZLE. Mind you, if you didn't PO him, the sound of the shot might scare him off.
 
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
And cast lead bullets break up upon impact.
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It's not impossible for a cast bullet to break up on impact, but it's certainly not a given. The main reason for using cast bullets is to minimize deformation and maximize penetration. Which they generally do pretty effectively within the range of velocities that they are intended to be used.
In which case, you will never be able to recognize what you've done, draw, aim and fire accurately enough with any hand gun for it to help you.
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It is true that bears are much faster than people tend to expect them to be. However there are documented cases of people successfully killing attacking bears with handguns (including 9mms) so the idea that it's "never" possible is certainly incorrect.

I think it's a given that 9mm is not going to be a popular choice for bear defense, nor is it a caliber likely to be recommended by experts for that purpose. But with the right ammunition, some luck and a lot of skill, it will provide the defender a chance of survival.

Put it this way. If I were going to buy a handgun specifically for bear defense I wouldn't spend any time looking at 9mms. But if I needed a handgun for bear defense and I already had a 9mm that I shot very well, I wouldn't automatically sell it to buy something in a different caliber.
 
J

jmr40

New member
With the right bullets it can be done, but those aren't the right bullets.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/alaska-man-kills-charging-brown-bear-with-a-9mm-pistol/

Hard cast bullets fired in many common semi-auto rounds such as 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm and 45 have proven quite capable. One of the larger bear killed in GA was taken illegally by poachers with a single round from a 40 S&W several years ago. I have no idea what the load was. I've seen video of a cape buffalo being taken with a 10mm 200 gr DoubleTap hardcast load.

When hiking or camping in bear country I carry either a Glock 20 or 29 loaded with the 200 gr DoubleTap load. And after reading the article about the brown bear taken in Alaska with a 9mm bought a couple of boxes.
 
J

jonnyc

New member
Just spent some time up in Alaskan bear country. The guide carried a Sig P226 in 9mm. I asked him if he really thought that was enough gun and he told me he didn't want to kill them. I fear he will end his days as a pile of Griz poop.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
You need cast lead bullets with enough penetration and kinetic energy for a head shot.

I recall seeing some 4-3-1 formula. At least 4x caliber, 300 grain minimum at 1000 feet per second minimum for bear.
Click to expand...

No, you don't need all that. It will work, if anything will, (in your hands) but don't think someone's pet formula is the minimum that will work.
Do note that since the frontier settlers on, we haven't been wiped out by bears because 300gr 1000fps+ pistol loads didn't exist until a few decades ago.
 
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