Barrel length on a High Wall 45-70 or 90 ?

[Jimmy10mm]

I'm leaning towards picking up one of the Winchester High Wall 45-90 repros out of Japan that Davidson's had made up. I figure to shoot smokeless 45-70 or maybe reload 45-90 (smokeless) and shoot that. I know these are stamped Black Powder Only but Texasmac, who wrote the book on them, says they are safe with smokeless as far as he is concerned. ( Scroll down page here for details on that)

I have noticed that the Creedmore with the tang mounted vernier sight and the globe front comes in barrel lengths ranging from 28 to 30, 32 and 34. So far looking at gunbroker I haven't seen the 34" but I'm thinking that would be best for long range target shooting. I'm a seasoned handgunner but not knowledgeable beyond the rudimentary in rifles. Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[44 AMP]

While he may be right, if they are marked "Black Powder Only" if any thing goes wrong when shooting ANY smokeless load, you are SOL.

If you are shooting smokless, there is no advantage to the .45-90 over the .45-70. There may, infact be disadvanges to the longer case, more empty space (or space to be filled with filler).

While modern .45-70 smokeless loads are held to pressures that ought to be safe in blackpowder rifles, if the maker does not say smokeless is ok, then I wouldn't shoot it, no matter what any expert found during their testing.

Its your choice, my .45-70s are all modern guns, just chambered in an old round.

The longer barrels add weight, increase sight radius, and with black powder, add some fps (which they will also do with smokeless, but at a different ratio). Personal choice as much as anything. More weight brings down recoil, but makes carry harder. And going from a 28" to a 34"? another pound of steel? more? What best fits your situation?

 

[Jim Watson]

The action is amply strong, it is just that the .45-90 is not a current SAAMI caliber so there are no smokeless specifications for it. Label it Black Powder Only and CYA with the legal beagles.

Shooting .45-70 in a .45-90 rifle is not like shooting .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum. At the minimum, range and accuracy expectations are considerably greater. A .135" jump makes little difference at 50 yards, but a .300" jump will tell at 500. If you buy a .45-90, SHOOT .45-90

If you wish to shoot at any great range, plan on loading black powder and loading it right. Big lead bullets at low velocity are very sensitive to velocity variation and black is better; if your standard deviation on a 1200 fps load is not in the single digits, you are doing something wrong.

The actual Creedmoor model is 34" .45-90 only. There are other variants in other calibers and barrel lengths, but they are not Creedmoors. If you could find the BPCR model with 30" .45-70 barrel you would be better off. That is what mine is under the previous Browning label; only .40-65 instead of .45-70.

Most of the BPCR shooters I know prefer 30" barrels with a few 32" and very few 34". The long barrel is getting to be awkward and is subject to excess fouling in that extra 4" as bullet lube is used up unless everything is JUST right. A friend has a 34" that requires much more frequent cleaning than his 30".

 

[Jimmy10mm]

Thanks for the info. I've been nosing around on the black powder forums and I may go that way. The only bp experience I have had is with the Colt repro 3rd dragoon back in the late '70s. I didn't like the clean up with soap and water and all. Stuff rusts in a pair of seconds if you're not right on it. I expect that hasn't changed at all ?

 

[HiBC]

If you want to pusue primarily black powder,a reasonable argument can be made for the 45-90.
If you primarily want to use smokeless powder at black powder pressures,the 45-70 is the clear choice.You won't run out of case capacity with smokeless.
While folks certainly have loaded 45-70 BP loads in a 45-90 chamber,remember the spank of BP ignition bumps the lead bullet up to whatever dia steel it is contained by.With the 45-90 chamber the throat /leade situation is less than ideal.
If you buy a 45-70 and later decide you want a 45-90,its a chambering reamer away,no problem.A little "running iron" work and the 7 could be made to look like a 9 on the cal designation on the bbl

 

[eastbank]

my friends and i shoot high walls, sharps and rollers with black and smokeless and i,m here to tell you that fouling in longer barrels with black is a problem,also the high walls and rollers are harder to clean,while the sharps are easier to clean. with the sharps you turn one lever and the whole block comes out to clean the black fouling from the block,firing pin and extractor. i no longer shoot any black in my high walls because of the pia with disassembly problems. if you can try a few of the rifles before you buy,it will help you decide,or go to a black powder match and watch and ask quastions. there are pro,s and con,s with the different actions. eastbank.

 

[Jim Watson]

I didn't like the clean up with soap and water and all. Stuff rusts in a pair of seconds if you're not right on it. I expect that hasn't changed at all ?

I don't know.
My real Winchester and my Jap Browning have never been washed with soap and water no matter what the Internet Experts say. I clean the bore and wipe down the exterior immediately after shooting with Windex All-Surface With Vinegar, dry, and oil with Ballistol. I reclean with M-Pro 7 when I get home. Less work than getting the copper out of my .308 and never a speck of rust. A very occasional strip down to clean the action is all that I have ever needed. The friend who got me into BPCR has been shooting a Shiloh Sharps for nearly 20 years with that approach and you would be hard pressed to tell it from new.