Barrel cleaning --what's realistic?

SteelyDan

New member
Okay, everyone knows you're supposed to "push patches" until they come out clean. But once the patches are clean, guess what? If you push yet another solvent-soaked patch through, it will come out with some more crud on it (at least mine do). Then wait a few minutes and the dry patches you push through will still show some crud. Use more solvent and the cycle repeats itself. It seems like an endless treadmill, and I just don't have enough patience or patches to get it perfect.

So, I've always assumed this was pretty normal, and that it was perfectly fine to end up with clean patches even knowing you could get them dirty again with some more solvent. But once the barrel looks clean, is there any reason to keep swabbing and pushing forever? Seems to me it would do more harm to the barrel than good.
 

Ledbetter

New member
What kinda barrel?

.22 barrels don't need much cleaning.
Some centerfire benchrest shooters clean after every shot.
 

-Yo-

New member
Methods

When a bbl's really dirty, I find there's no substitute for a good brass brush with a bronze core. I usually run 3-4 wet patches through, then dry patch, then repeat with brushes. I run a wet brush through, one way only, maybe 3-4 times, then follow with patches.

When copper foulding builds up, I'll put Sweet's on a nylon brush. This works pretty well.

With a gun with a rough bbl, like a Savage, I find I have to use about one patch per shot fired to get it really clean. With a hand-lapped match bbl like a Krieger, you may need only 6-7 patches and two brush strokes after 25 rounds. The smoother the bbl, the less it fouls, generally speaking.
 

CWL

New member
Bronze brushes and elbow grease. Don't forget to use a bore guide so you can really scrub out the bore without damage.

Also, if you haven't already, invest in a cheap bore light so you can really take a look at the inside of your barrel.
 

straightShot

New member
Realistic?

Brass brush followed by patches...

Clean it. Leave it. Shoot it again.

Clean it and then clean the next gun. Don't scrub, scrub, scrub. I think that too many guns are ruined by overzealous cleaning, but that's just my opinion.
 

ctdonath

New member
The instructors at Storm Mountain (sniper school) strongly recommend NOT cleaning the barrel at all (unless other gunk gets inside). Barrel cleaning changes the performance, non-corrosive powders don't do any damage, and each bullet effectively cleans out what went thru before. The head instructor's main rifle has 40,000+ rounds through it and has never cleaned the barrel; over time it has gradually become more accurate.

Cleaning the CHAMBER, however, is a different story: recommended mirror-polish cleaning every 25 rounds (just don't touch the lands/grooves).
 

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
I was raised on the notion that the main enemy was rust. Over this last fifty years, then, I mostly have just run an oily patch through the barrel from time to time, whether coming in from shooting or occasionally during the off-season.

I didn't notice any group-size degradation in my '06 until after well over 3,000 rounds. A short session with a copper-removing solvent took care of that problem.

My focus is hunting, so anything around or inside of one MOA is plenty good. Bench rest is a "whole nother deal".

Art
 

Pappy John

New member
I'm assuming that the Storm Mt. instructor shoots that rifle nearly every day, leaving almost no chance for rust to develop. I wonder if he planned on storing it for any amount of time whether he'd clean it prior to putting it in the rack. I agree that a clean barrel shoots differently....I usually fire a fouling shot into the berm first from a clean barrel if I'm trying for a tight group. It'll almost always be a flier.
 

BigG

New member
SteelyDan, your approach sounds sound to me. You will get all kinds of advice but rust is prolly the big demon to guard against as Art said.

You get into specialized shooting sports like benchrest and you will start practicing voodoo if you think it will up your scores. ;)
 

Handy

Moderator
I generally clean til the barrel LOOKS clean, which is generally two bore-snakes worth. I can't imagine how a little fouling and some oil is going to kill my barrel or ruin accuracy.
 

Ledbetter

New member
Start practicing voodoo if you think it will up your scores . . .

You start with two live chickens and a goat's head, . . . .
 

Bogie

New member
Well, I shoot benchrest.

I clean after every 15-20 rounds.

Clean while the barrel is still warm, and the crud comes out easier.

3 patches SOAKED with Butch's Bore Shine. 10-20 strokes with a bronze benchrest brush. Let it set while I load. Patch out with three soaked patches, then a couple of dry patches, then one with a little oil on it.

If you've got a really cruddy barrel, nothing will substitute for cycles of soaking and brushing.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that someone has put 40,000 rounds through a centerfire rifle bore, with or without cleaning, and had accuracy maintain, much less improve.

If the firecracking and damage to the throat area didn't cause the rifle to shoot like an improved choke shotgun, then he'd have a load of problems with buildup of crud.

It isn't powder fouling that is to blame here - it is copper fouling that builds up, and creates tight spots in the bore, causing degraded accuracy. NOT a good thing.

Or maybe he's one of those guys who I see out at the local conservation range who sets up a rifle target at the 25 yard range, pops three at it from the ought-six, and then goes home satisfied.
 

Ichabod Poser

New member
I agree with StraightShot. Bill Jordan once remarked that he had a .375 Mashburn that he had NEVER cleaned. I scrub a bit when I see an orange hue, but I'm not a fanatic. And I use whatever solvent falls to hand.

Leading, on the other hand, bothers me a bit more since it might affect accuracy. I use a Lewis Lead Remover in extreme cases. I find lino seems to come out fairly well with a small wad of Nevr-Dull on a jag. In fact, barrels polished a bit with Nevr-Dull don't seem to lead as much.
 

Bogie

New member
The barrels that are ruined by "overzealous cleaning" are generally ruined by "improper cleaning."

1) use a bore guide. Spend $20 or so here, and you won't regret it.

2) use a one-piece rod, preferably Dewey, Pro-Shot or Bore Tech.

3. DO NOT use any kind of brush besides a benchrest-grade bronze/brass or nylon brush.
 

cracked butt

New member
I don't clean my rifles at all unless:
-I'm shooting corrosive ammo or black powder
-I had the gun out in the rain or snow and it got wet
-I notice a loss of accuracy

My dad never cleaned any of his guns. I inherited a really nice Rem 700 that he hadn't cleaned in 30 years of hunting and shooting. It was shooting 1.5" groups at 200 yards before I decided to clean it. After cleaning, it wouldn't shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards which is pretty lousy for a .308. I had to put another 150 rounds through it without cleaning it to shoot as well again.

I also met a competitive shooter that collects old rifles. He told me the worst thing you can do to a rifle is to clean it when it doesn't need it. I'm a neat freak and its really difficult to put a gun back in the cabinet without running numerous patches down the barrel, but I find that it is best for my rifles. On the other hand, if you have a custom made rifle, its probably going to have a hand lapped bore that is much smoother than a factory rifle, so fouling can hurt accuracy and more cleaning is necessary. The level of accuracy between a custom rifle and factory rifle is different from the start anyway.
 

JackC

New member
I'm LAZY so

This is SUCH good news!! I don't have to clean any more!! Just kidding - but it will make me feel better about putting them away once in a while without being so picky about cleaning them.

Thanks,
jAK-47
 

Attachments

  • vepr k 7.62.jpg
    vepr k 7.62.jpg
    25.9 KB · Views: 88

tomandnacole

New member
great thread! the previous post's hit on every thing i would have added except, Never use a stainless bore brush and avoid cleaning from muzzle. allwayse remember to nutralize amonia solvents with alcohol then remove that with a light coat of oil.
some snipers will fire a couple of fouling shots after cleaning to keep the point of impact the same. check out dan lilja's web sight, it gives good cleaning guidence
 

tomandnacole

New member
here is cleaning as per lilja's recomendation:
CENTERFIRE BARREL BREAK-IN & CLEANING INSTRUCTIONS

We recommend that your new Lilja rifle barrel be properly broken-in to obtain the best accuracy. A proper break-in will help ensure that your barrel will clean easily in the future and that you will achieve maximum accuracy potential. Please follow these important instructions.

We are concerned with two types of fouling: copper fouling, which is caused by bullet jacket material being left in the barrel, and powder fouling. During the first few round a lot of copper fouling will be left in the barrel. It is important to remove this fouling completely, after each shot, to help prevent a build-up later on. Powder fouling is ongoing, but easy to remove. Do not use moly-coated bullets during the break-in procedure.

Break-in Procedure

For an effective break-in the barrel should be cleaned after every shot for the first 10-12 rounds or until copper fouling stops. Our procedure is to push a cotton patch that is wet with solvent through the barrel. This will remove much of the powder fouling and wet the inside of the barrel with solvent. Next, wet a bronze brush with solvent and stroke the barrel 5-10 times. Follow this by another wet patch and then one dry patch. Now soak the barrel with a strong copper removing solvent until all of the blue mess is removed from the barrel. The copper fouling will be heavy for a few rounds and then taper off quickly in just one or two shots. Once it has stopped or diminished significantly it is time to start shooting 5 shot groups, cleaning after each one. After 25-30 rounds clean at a normal interval of 10-25 rounds. Your barrel is now broken-in.

Normal cleaning

For a normal cleaning (after a string of 10-25 shots) after break-in, the above procedure should be used, but stop short of soaking the barrel with the strong copper remover. A good rule of thumb is to stroke the barrel with a brush, one cycle for every shot fired.

Periodic cleaning

It is probably a good idea to use a strong copper removing solvent every 200 rounds, or so, to check the barrel for copper fouling. We do not recommend the routine use of abrasive cleaners for normal cleaning. However they can be used every 500-1000 rounds to remove the carbon build-up (caused by powder fouling) in the throat area of the barrel. To use, wrap a cotton patch around a worn out brush or a cleaning jag and liberally apply the abrasive cleaner to the patch. Short stroke the abrasive for 6" or so in the throat area and one or two full length passes through the barrel. Do not clean the barrel like this for more than 1-2 minutes.

Suggested equipment and solvents

It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a "belly" in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

We've used a number of solvents over the years and have found that Shooter's Choice is excellent at removing powder fouling and Sweets is good for copper removal. Another solvent we've had excellent results with is one made in Billings, Montana by BBS Industries (406-652-2495). This solvent is good at attacking both powder and copper fouling.

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it.

For shooters wishing to use moly-coated bullets we do not recommend shooting more than 25 rounds or so without using the normal cleaning procedure outlined above.
 
Top