Barnes Bullets

Q

Qtiphky

New member
I am trying to work up a load for a Barnes 62gr TSX in .223 rem. I used the load data from Barnes website but was unable to get any sort of groupings. I used the bottom load, which was around 2800 fps. I could get all three on paper at 100 yds but they were all over the place, I mean about a 9" spread. I tried this with all 20 rounds that I loaded. No consistency in three different rifles. I have tried other factory loads in the weight class of 75 grns and had the same problem. I have loaded Varmint Grenades in 36 grns and can pull 1 inch groups out of the same gun (Bushmaster), listed at 3514 fps. Sierra 55 grns FMJ are about 1 inch groups as well (all 3 rifles). I have loaded the TSX in .308, .270 and .300 WSM, all with 1 inch groups and absolutely love these bullets. They did nice work on two deer this year.

What I'm asking is, do I need to bring the velocity up with the heavier bullets to improve the accuracy? It seems the faster the .223 goes, the more accurate it becomes, obviously to a point, but that is what it seems. All of the loads that seem to get over the 3000 fps do well.

Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.
 
L

Loader9

New member
If your rifles are not quick twist rifling, your barrel will not stabilize the longer bullet. Take another look at the Barnes data and it specifically states 1:9" twist or faster. Look here:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/223RemingtonWeb.pdf

Don't feel bad. I couldn't get 200 of them to ever group out of a 1:12", a 1:9", and a 1:8" twist. There were no groups, more like patterns....as in shotgun. Frankly, a 62 gr SS109 hits a lot harder and is far, far cheaper. But don't shoot steel plates with the 62's unless you don't mind destruction of the plate. I haven't tried the 62's out of a standard twist and it may not be enough.
 
L

Loader9

New member
Looks like yer having the same results I had. You have used the recommended OAL I suppose? These bullets have to be seated a little deeper than a normal bullet so they can get a run at the L&Gs according to the folks at Barnes. I never did get them to shoot out of any of mine. Same results with the Barnes 50 gr Varmint Grenades. No groups-patterns at best.

My interest in these little pills was for hogs. It would be dandy to carry a light 223 thru the brush and still be able to drop a 500 lb hog at close range with out having to go into hand to hand combat with him. The 62gr SS109 has performed more than expectations and so far has dropped the big boys in their tracks like a big gun.

Side note: I just looked at the Barnes site for the OAL recommended for that bullet and their test rifle is a 1:12" yet they recommend a 1:9" twist. Odd. I would think a faster twist would raise max pressures. You might want to call the guys over there. They're a great bunch and extremely helpful.
 
Q

Qtiphky

New member
You referenced the SS109. What bullet is that? I was planning on using this round for coyotes to whitetail deer. I suspect it will work if you are using it for hogs.
 
1

10 Spot Terminator

New member
+1 on Loader9s' observation about seating depth on the Barnes bullets. I have been using them for many years and the minimum setback I have been able to get away with is .040 from the lands. I can see where this can be a bit tricky on a .223 as I have not tried them in this calibre and wonder when set that deeply how much exsposed bullet outside of the neck is at .224 diameter ? Barnes bullets tend to run a bit on the long side compared to other bullets of equal grain weight. Any powder scorching showing around the case necks showing poor seal at the case mouths ???? Out of curiousity what powder does Barnes recommend for this load ???? 10 SPOT
 
Q

Qtiphky

New member
It called for 23.5 grains of Varget with a WSR primer. I used the 23.5 grains of Varget, but I used CCI Small Rifle Primers instead. No, I didn't notice any powder burns or case problems. I trim every shell and check them before loading. It says that COAL should be 2.250", which is what I set my micrometer at and all of the rounds were that length. Isn't military ball ammo the same bullet weight? 62 FMJ? The scary thing is to reach 3000 fps, it looks like I have to get a load density of 102%, which I'm not real comfortable with. One of the responses said I should contact Barnes directly for assistance. Will they have any better responses? Maybe those bullets just don't work in my guns.
 
C

Colorado Redneck

New member
If you have used Barnes before you probably know this already BUT.

I loaded some Barnes for my 270. Had done the usual cleaning thing, using a brass brush and some Hoppes cleaner. First three shots were farily accurate, and showed good on the chrony. After that I was shocked at how the bullets flew all over the place. Out of 12 rounds, I was lucky to get a 10 inch group. Was P.Oed to say the least.

Went to the internet and Googled "Barnes Bullets accuracy." Instantly got a thread on another forum talking about how clean the bore MUST be to use Barnes. So, I went and got some of that stinking assed cleaner, brushed the bore for about 20 minutes. Next trip to the range those Barnes were fantastic. Bore has to be immaculate for Barnes bullets.

Like I said...you probably know this. I didn't.
 
F

FrankenMauser

New member
Isn't military ball ammo the same bullet weight? 62 FMJ?
Click to expand...

Some loads are 62 grains. However, it's not really the weight that causes the problem with stability. Strangely enough, bullet length has more to do with it. Since the copper alloy Barnes uses is less dense than lead; the bullet has to be considerably longer to achieve the same weight.


The steps noted in the other posts are a good starting point to see if you can get some good performance out of the 62s. Personally, I would try the 53gr TSX. As long as you don't have a custom weapon with a crazy rate of twist, the 53s should do great. (from a non-copper-fouled bore, after a little load work up)
 
Q

Qtiphky

New member
Ok, great information and help so far. Here is my next thought process. I measured all the rounds that I have shot and found that the ones that gave more accuracy were all 2.17-2.20 in OAL. The ones that were 2.24-2.26 OAL didn't group, just hit the paper. The Barnes website listed my load as OAL of 2.25 and that was what I loaded. I just loaded up some more and I seated the bullet deeper so the OAL is now 2.20; 2.19; 2.18 and 2.17 (5 rds in each). Will seating the bullet deeper cause any sort of pressure problems? I am using the lightest load listed. Barnes says on their website that because their TSX bullets have grooves, they actually have lower pressures than other bullets.
 
1

10 Spot Terminator

New member
Dont worry about increases in pressure due to seating depth even if the loads are slightly compressed . You wont get any increased pressures here. Barnes is right in that their TSX series bullets tend to have less pressure than solid sided bullets as their ring and groove design has less load bearing surface contacting the rifle bore and therefore less drag equals less pressure. Several years ago after the TSX bullets were progated it was appx. 2 years before Barnes actually incorporated load data for these bullets into a published manual. At that time Barnes stated you could add appx 1 1/2 to 2 grains more powder to most all other publised load data other than for their own X bullets as they had higher than normal pressures. I found this to indeed be true as have been using them in 3 different calibres since they first came out. I equate the TSX bullet pressures to moly coated bullets as the same principal applies here as well due to the slicker coating on the bullets. Here too you had to add additional powder to get the pressures up to optimal powder performance levels. To a more minor degree standard bullets we are all familiar with have slightly different jacket makeups referred to as "gliding metal" that act slightly different and tend to lend to having to adjust powder loads when trying various bullets of equal weight . Nothing worth having comes easy. Hope this helps . 10 SPOT
 
S

Stick_man

New member
Contact Barnes

I have been loading the Barnes bullets for quite some time now. Started out with the XLC's on the recommendation of a friend. Loaded mainly for the '06, but tried a few in the 6mm. Haven't tried them yet in the .223 but have some 53gr TSX for it. I couldn't get very tight groups out of the 6mm, but the '06 throws great groups with both the XLC and the TSX. Because I have a 1:12 twist in both the 6mm and the .223, I won't be loading any more of the Barnes bullets for them, but will stick with the TSX in the '06. I guess I'll just have to get another .223 with a faster twist.:D

Living less than 10 minutes drive from their facilities made it hard to keep the shooting budget under control over the past few years. Now they are moving a few miles to the south, so the frequent visits will be greatly reduced.

To get your problem figured out, I would recommend contacting Ty Herring at Barnes. He is very knowledgeable and has been with Barnes for a while. He and the rest of the team there have always been great to work with. If he doesn't have an immediate answer for you, he will likely personally work on getting one for you.
 
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wncchester

New member
"It seems the faster the .223 goes, the more accurate it becomes, obviously to a point, but that is what it seems."

One aspect of your experience is that powders are designed to work best in a certain pressure range. Get too low and it won't be consistant. Ditto, too high - one load may hold together and the next may come from together!
 
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