Ballistics ignorance from NY's Finest

[RH]

Just watched "COPS", where they rode along with NYPD Street Crime Unit. Cops pick up a guy on a bike with a _&_ .357 in his pocket. Cop says "it's fully loaded with hollow point bullets, which are made to go through our regular vests".

whaaa??? Where do these guys get their information???

 

[TheeBadOne]

I didn't see that episode but I do know of a gang that made it's own ammo to defeat armor. It worked like a cookie cutter and I guess it did look like a wide mouth hollowpoint. Don't know if that's what they found or not. Another batch of gang ammo found looked like over sized large dart tips, and I guess they were test fired & penetrated 4 individual vests....

 

[orlando5]

A 30-06 AP round won't go through a Type 4 armor. I really doubt that a dart tip will do it.

I haven't seen the episode but I doubt that the HP will penetrate their armor.

 

[LawDog]

There are a large number of people Out There who believe that the fact that they have a 'Y' chromosome, have chewed more than two packs of Red Man tobacco and seen the Late Night Action Marathon on WGN, means that they are in possession of All There Is To Know about the carry, use and trivia of gun possession.

And, yes, some of them are cops.

LawDog

 

[Jeff OTMG]

I think that was a NJ cop and that would explain a lot.

 

[dinosaur]

I think that`s an old show. Guiliani didn`t like the NYPD or Bratton getting more press than him so he had the NYPD segments killed. Any cop who allows a camera crew to ride with them is a moron anyway. Sorry, Guiliani will never be a hero to me.

Whether a .357 will penetrate a vest is immaterial. If you get hit with one it could take you out of the fight. You be Superman if you want and stick your chest out, I`ll try not to get hit with one. If it turns out you have an undetected heart condition/aneurism the trauma will definitely kill you.

 

[mjustice]

Most urban cops are not "gun folk", since they were not raised around guns. They only know what they have been taught (which is not much )

I have met many cops in my life, and the overwhelming majority of the guys on the NYPD don't know anything beyond what they are taught at the academy. Most cops who do know a 'thing or three' were either gun nuts before they started (rare), or grew up with or around hunters and shooters.

Remember, the NYPD has something like 40,000 cops. That's a lot of bad information going around...

MJ

 

[RH]

NJ

Being a transplanted NY'er who lives in NJ, I have no love for either state's gun policies, but what does "that would explain a lot" mean ?!?!? On the whole, NJ LE is more gun knowledgable and gun friendly than NYC, and they train more and are in much better physical shape - that may raise some objections but it's true and I've lived on both sides of the river. A large % of NJ cops look like buzzcut MP's and probably spend more time in the gym than Dunkin Donuts.

And yes, the show was the NYPD, the bust was in Brooklyn on Myrtle Ave. Is that specific enough? (about 10 minutes from where I grew up)

 

[FLM]

RH, I saw that episode last night. You're correct, it was the NYPD in Brooklyn. It was a 686 with San Diego PD engraved on it. I groaned when the cop made the comment about the HPs.

 

[Ewok_Guy]

LOL! What a dolt. It's not very surprising though.

 

[croyance]

I do not watch these shows, but it seems to me that the police on them often make comments that they think will sound good on TV. Think about it, it is there 15 minutes of fame, time to work it for all it is worth. What does the general viewing public know?
Haven't there been a number of incidents where police did not do their background work properly and ended up busting into the wrong abode, in an attempt to have exciting footage for the show?

 

[Mad Max]

I seem to remember a story (quite possibly an urban legend) about an incident where one of the COPS camera crew was accidentally shot in the leg by a LEO that was removing a shotgun from the trunk of his cruiser.

I have the COPS:TOO HOT FOR TV video, and it is quite entertaining. One guy runs out of gas with the camera crew in his car, there is a wreck btw two cop cars that is filmed from inside one of the involved cars, and my favorite is a clip of a cop pulling over a big cadillac that backfires right as he is getting out of his cruiser and nearly makes him s**t down both legs.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Why is it that some cops are COMPELLED to - - -

- - - talk about subjects on which they are ignorant? The best episodes of that type are those in which the officers talk about their beat, their partner, and so forth. If they leave the technical stuff alone, they come out MUCH better.

During a high-profile trial once, I got trapped in hallway outside the courtroom by several mikes and cameras. My boss said, "Talk to 'em, Johnny," and slipped away. I just stood there and smiled pleasantly and endured.

Q: How long will the jury be out?
A: No way of telling, ma'am.

Q: What will the verdict be?
A: We hope we proved the State's case to their satisfaction.

Q: Why didn't anyone from his family testify?
A: I really couldn't say. [He had murdered his mother some years before.}

Q: Why did the defense . . . .?
A: I don't know the answer to that.

Q: Why did the State choose . . . ?
A: You might want to check with the DA. He's the man in the dark blue suit.

- - - and on for a couple more questions. I felt like a dufus. Three people called me after the six o'clock news and said what a great interview I gave. It never aired again. Not interesting enough, I guess. But I never claimed to be an entertainer.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Double Naught Spy]

It is an old episode and didn't the cop also call them "cop killer" bullets? I don't remember for certain. I do recall thinking that he would be a lot luckier to be shot in the vest with one of the hollow points because it will dissipate energy a little quicker and over a wider area than regular ball ammo.

Many cops really are not gun people. That seems shocking, but it is true. At the same time, few cops could probably tell you about the various types of handcuffs and the manfacturers. Few could give you a break down of batons and the advantages and disadvantage of various styles. Few haven't the foggiest idea how their radios work.

That is not necessarily bad or meant disrespectful. Look at all the other things they DO have to know and know how to deal with. All of the safety equipment a cop carries is meant to save lives in some ways. All of it is important, but cops are often just users of the equipment, hopefully skilled users, but not experts, makers, designers, or anything else. Oh, and few have any idea on how to fix their squad cars especially now given the computer chips used in modern vehicles. Like most of the rest of us, they can probably change a flat, turn on the lights, and drive the car. That is all they really need to do.

 

[RT]

Where they Teflon coated HPs??????

 

[Jeff OTMG]

Sorry, but I think MUCH more of NYPD than cops in NJ. Especially the NJSP. I remember when the FOPA passed in 1986, NJSP were ignoring the provisions and arresting hunters headed north. They think the laws are not for them, just for everybody else. Now that tells me that they are either *******s or idiots. I don't know which, but it could be a combination of the two. Too much God complex for my taste. NYPD has always been courtious to me and I was recently invited to ride along with a task force in one of the boroughs and to be taken to the range (it is on some island) so I could qualify for a NYC carry permit. I doubt an offer like that would be forthcoming from any NJ jurisdiction.

 

[geegee]

One of the best quotes I've ever heard attributed to a high ranking police commander, was (IIRC) from the Head of the New Jersey State Police. He was commenting on the "assault rifle ban" frenzy being whipped up by Sen. Feinstein and her cronies and said something like "My officers have a better chance of being attacked by a tiger during their shift, than being fired at by someone with an assault rifle." geegee

 

[Rebeldon]

Most urban cops are not "gun folk", since they were not raised around guns. They only know what they have been taught (which is not much )

I've seen this for myself. I met a retired Birmingham police officer who just recently retired from working security at a urban hospital, tell me that they only carried revolvers and didn't carry semi-automatic pistols at the hospital because they were affraid of the bullets penetrating the walls if they ever had to shoot. And that's why he only carried a .357 magnum S&W revolver.

I said, "But a .357 magnum bullet is more likely to penetrate the walls than any semi-auto bullet I know of."

He said, "Well, that's what they told us."

By the way, he is a very nice old feller. But he lived in the city all of his life.

 

[dinosaur]

Jeff, it`s actually a spit of land right next to City Island. It`s not marked on any maps because it belongs to the Parks Dep`t. If you were leaving the range you`d hit a traffic circle and the bridge to City Island is the first turn. The second turnoff takes you to Orchard Beach.

Used to be a fun place to work until they "proffessionalized" it. :barf:

 

[mjustice]

I was recently invited to ride along with a task force in one of the boroughs and to be taken to the range (it is on some island) so I could qualify for a NYC carry permit. I doubt an offer like that would be forthcoming from any NJ jurisdiction.

Who are you, and what elected office do you hold in the "real world"?

There is no range qualification even for the hard-to-get NYC Carry License. I know people who have acquired it in both manners ("I have a high-risk business" and "I have a business and I am connected"), and neither had to qualify at a range. The instructions don't mention a shoot either.

Ride along with a task force? That's pretty much unheard of, even for politicos. LE brass, perhaps?

MJ