Ballistic Question

[Jagdesh]

Good day everyone, I am new to this forum. I am from Trinidad and Tobago in the caribbean. Presently i own a glock 19 Gen5 Non MOS. I am exploring in purchasing a Zev Citadel Slide Stripped For G19 G5. My question is - If i transfer all the parts from my old slide onto the new blank slide. Would it alter the ballistics?

Reason i asked this question. - Here in my country after a person gets their fire arm license and purchase a gun the ballistics is recorded by the government. However the process to get a variation approval to purchase another weapon takes a very long time. Really appreciate your advise here. Thank you

 

[Skippy]

That's an interesting situation. I think "ballistics" would have to do with the distinct marks made as the round is shot through the barrel. Those marks are (supposedly) like fingerprints unique to the individual gun.

My guess is if your new slide uses the same barrel as the old gun the ballistics won't change. However, I'm an not a lawyer and it would be best to contact the relevant authorities rather than the internet.

Your government's intention is probably to catalog every gun's ballistic fingerprint to help identify the shooter if a bullet end up at a crime scene. Of course, while it may help identify the gun itself it doesn't prove who actually pulled the trigger.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*

 

[Aguila Blanca]

What do you mean by "ballistics"? Or, more specifically, what "ballistics" are recorded by the government?

Fundamentally, a Glock 19 is a 9mm Parabellum (9x19) handgun. If ballistics refers to the velocity and terminal performance of the bullets after they leave the gun, the "ballistics" will be different for every brand and series of ammunition -- meaning that 115-grain ammunition has different external ballistics than 124-grain ammunition or than 147-grain ammunition.

If you mean that the government retains a fired case that was fired through that pistol, if you are buying a stripped slide then you would be using the same barrel. So any marks the chamber leaves on the body of the cases will be the same. However, any marks imprinted on a fired case by the breechface (which is part of the slide) will be different.

I don't think we can answer your question. This is a technical, legal question that can only be answered by the legal authority in your country.

 

[Jagdesh]

ok , so in my country they take the ballistic meaning the imprint of the firing pin as it strikes the bullet casing, also the marking of the casing which is caused as it passes through the barrel. I would be using all the internal parts of my old slide and moving it over to my new slide. This is exactly what i want to know if the imprints will alter.

 

[mehavey]

OP means forensic ballistics
https://unlirec.org/en/unlirec-work...nt-standard-procedures-in-forensic-ballistics.

In which case -- were I the gov't -- I'd want the newly-configured gun brought into the lab, fired, and bullet, case. primer imprints newly recorded.

 

[Jagdesh]

so basically, what i am asking is if i move all my internal parts of the glock 19 slide into the new zev slide would the forensic ballistics remain the same from the primer imprints and the case.

 

[44 AMP]

welcome to TFL

This is a yes and no thing.

Yes, in general since you are using the same parts, they should make the same marks. But "no" in specifics (possibly) because you are using a different slide, and the breechface of that slide does contact the cartridge case, and so could possibly leave a different mark than the Glock slide, or perhaps no mark at all.

SO, the important question is, "does this matter?"

And I mean does it matter in the legal sense in your country??

For that, you need qualified legal advice, to research and determine just how the laws and regulations of your country are written, interpreted, and enforced.

From what I'm reading, you need govt approval to get a different gun, and do not need that approval to just change a gun part, is that right?

And what you're wanting to know is if changing the part (and thereby changing the marks on the fired case) constitute a "different gun" under your legal system. To answer that, you need an expert in your legal system.

Ballistics means the study of objects in flight. Forensic means the application of the scientific method in criminal investigations. "Forensic Ballistics" is a made up term used as a blanket to cover a wider range of things than the words themselves mean.

"Ballistic fingerprint" is another made up term used by the media and
other underinformed people who think it means something that it does not.

The markings on a fired bullet, or shell casing ARE unique identifiers (if the inspection is detailed enought) HOWEVER, they are only valid identifiers of the gun at one point in time.

As the gun is used, parts wear. Things can change. Parts can be changed. Lots of things can change the marks, slightly. Normal wear from shooting is one of them.

SO, what is your legal status, if you have a gun which, when test fired no longer EXACTLY matches what the govt has on file, (taken when the gun was new??) Is that a criminal, or any kind of legal offense in your country??

In the US, its not. As long as the serial # part of the gun matches what the govt records say, to the govt, it is the same gun. Your country could be different, and you need valid legal advice about that from someone in your country.

Good Luck!

 

[HiBC]

In my opinion,(which will not help you) when you are dealing with a government agency that has power to prosecute you, a reasonable argument based on what seems common sense will have no standing against the judgement of a bureaucrat.

And the collective opinions of an internet forum won't help you,either.

We have similar issues here in the USA with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,and Firearms.

Despite our Constitutional Second Amendment, to be in compliance with the law is a moving target at times. The definitions and limits seem to change with the whims of unelected government officials without legislative process.

You may be a law abiding Citizen today, and tomorrow some part or detail may make you a felon over night.

You may find our answers frustrating. In fact we are not qualified to answer for the officials in your country.

To give you an answer that affirms your hopes may put you behind bars.

We don't know.

Whatever the process is,to be 100% sure, its easier and less trouble than being found with a gun your Government does not like.

The bullet should remain the same as its the same barrel. The firing pin may be the same but a different slide with a different breech face and firing pin hole may present different results. We don't know the landmarks the lab evaluates. The breech face itself may leave a signature. The extractor and ejector will be working in a different slide.

Is it evaluated by a technician with an eyeball and a microscope or a computer driven laser scan? Is simply replacing the slide a criminal firearms alteration?

We do not know. To give you no advice is our best advice.

 

[Jagdesh]

Thank you all for your answers. I think its best for me to write to the government to request permission to make the change.

 

[jar]

Before you do that, why do you want the new slide?

Is it purely looks?

Will the new slide provide benefits unavailable with the old slide?

Will the new slide be a great enough improvement to draw attention to yourself?

 

[Jim Watson]

There are a lot of claims of superiority by Zev but the only objective difference I see is:

All ZEV slides have our patented optic cut

So either he wants a dot sight, wants fancy styling, or he has fallen for the advertising.

 

[Jagdesh]

reason i want a new slide is to accomodate the red dot sight, i used a DPP plate but i always have to re adjust the red dot as its always trown off. The slides with RMR cut will allow a red dot sight to be fastened better. In my country no one sells slides alone but complete new MOS weapons. In order to buy a new gun one has to apply for a variation which is sorry to say very hard to get approvals for. I have shot with a red dot and must say my shooting skills is much better.

 

[Jim Watson]

That is what I thought.

In your place I would use the ZEV but keep the factory original.
But then I do not know how strict the inspections are.

I know of no case in the USA where a crime was solved by forensics ballistics examination of the sample fired cases enclosed with guns sold in some places.