Bad neighbors

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BGutzman

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I have lived in a better neighborhood for the last three years; unfortunately we had some neighbors move in across the street who have no social graces.

The neighbors use the first floor garage as a living room and even went so far as to put a couch on rolling wheels along with a nice china hutch and some other typical living room items. (I could care less about this if it wasnt for the poor behavior.)

The problem is these people intentionally sit outside and purposely are insulting, degrading and utterly rude despite being given no reason to be. It seems there is always 4 people and usually 8 or 10 outside facing my house and partying. Large amounts of beer are involved and based on physical appearance/actions almost certainly some sort of drugs are involved.

Yesterday my sons and I were cleaning out the garage, not bothering a sole and we were barraged with purposely rude comments said specifically loud enough for half the block to hear. Again we have made every effort to be non-confrontational in every sense of the word but I am not going to be let these miscreants determine if I’m going to clean my garage or do some normal family function on my property.

I have determined that in the future instead of tolerating some of the noise and rudeness were just going to start calling the police and let them deal with it.

I also think it would be wise to install a security camera or two facing the problem direction although they will probably be flooded by pictures of the middle finger and such. It will give me some physical evidence to ask for prosecution or at least a restraining order.

Do any of you have any other suggestions, I considered talking to them directly but given the outrageous nature of the actions we have seen so far I can’t believe it would be productive in any sense of the word and would probably encourage more poor conduct. I suspect they would want to fist fight no matter how politely approached.

Further since I am almost always carrying (CCW) I dont want to be antogonistic or give any provocation, but I havent given them any reason to be so ill mannered and it almost comes off as a verbal assault every time we go outside. We now check my mail box in my vehicle if they are outside because we consider them potentially dangerous. Unfortunatley the mailbox is on their side of the road.

All of us live in nice townhouse on or near a lake, I cant imaging what the two neighbor house on each side of this disprespectful neignhors house endure.

Any suggestions on what else I can do would be appreciated. I will not be intimidated in my own house. I want to avoid conflict and will continue to go the extra mile to be non confrontational but I have to find a way to deal with these people.
 
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tet4

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Security cameras facing them and also the back of your home. Ignore confrontations. If there is an HOA, this is about as good of a use for it as any, so get them involved, and if not, start talking with your surrounding neighbors.

Call the fire department and the local building authority - a garage is not livable space. If your town requires a permit for residence, then look into what the laws are with that. If there is a noise ordinance, look into that as well.

Finally, if they are renting, find the owner and let them know.

Good luck - that is not a fun situation.
 
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Rifleman1776

New member
Security camera posted obviously is best thing.
Sounds to me like they are being just annoying, probably no law violations, yet.
If you have a military type rifle (AK, AR, etc.) put a banana clip (empty) in it, sling across your back and walk around inside your garage where you can be seen. Do this whenever they are doing their thing. Don't say a word, just let yourself be seen. Then put it away, come back and just stand staring at them. Whatever you do, don't say anything or respond to taunting, just stare.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
tet4 said:
Call the fire department and the local building authority - a garage is not livable space. If your town requires a permit for residence, then look into what the laws are with that. If there is a noise ordinance, look into that as well.
Click to expand...
^^^ This.

There are all sorts of laws and agencies that might have jurisdiction over this. If you are in townhouses, then the plans for the complex probably had to be approved by a zoning board as well as the building inspector. Using a garage as living space may not be allowed under the zoning approval for the project.

Under the building code (which you would discuss with the local or county building inspector), using a garage as a living space is what the code calls a "change of use." That requires a building permit to have been taken out, and the space inspected and a new "certificate of occupancy" to have been issued. You can pretty much bet they didn't do any of that, so their use of the garage is unlawful. How hard the building inspector wants to push it will be the issue ... usually building inspectors hate to get involved in things like that.

The proper approach would be for the inspector to drive by, verify that the space is being used for living, send them a cease-and-desist letter, and when they blow him/her off he should immediately turn it over to the town or county attorney for prosecution. The exact process will be determined by the laws in the jurisdiction where you live, but there IS a process.
 
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BGutzman

New member
thanks Mike and Tet!

I appreciate all the advice! It wouldnt even be quite the thorn it is but loud music and foul language at 2 am during weekdays and weekends gets quite old.

I dont understand people that feel they must peel out there hot rod on a residental street with several very young children running around and not always so well supervised.

We always try to help our neighbors and go to great pains to make sure we are being as polite and respectful as possible. My kids are grown and working on the last two years of high school. We support all boyscouts/girlscouts, 4H and others that come knocking on the door even if our kids arent involved anymore.

I certainly believe in people freedoms but I also believe in being a good neighbor..

I think I am going to persuit what both you and Mike said. I want no direct interaction with them so I will ignore them and do all the administrative type things.
 
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jmortimer

Moderator
There are both criminal and civil aspects to their behavior. A hidden video camera and external microphone able to pick up insults would support disturbing the peace claim and if insults involve threats of any sort then possible assult or terrorist threat charges and for civil action intentional or even plain old infliction of emotional distress would be enough to get into small claims court. Put landloard if any on notice of the nuisance and sue them as well. A few trips to the court and visits by the police should slow them down and video/audio will support you. They have no right to disturb your peace. Also, support and eyewitness testimony of the other neighbors would be almost as good as video/audio - I would enlist the other neighbors for support in all this as a few good neighbors will go a long way to solving the problem. Agree that code enforcement and any other agencies that might be interested is good route as well. Consult an attorney.
 
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BGutzman

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I appreciate what your saying Rifleman but I really want them not to know I have any firearms. I suspect that my house might be broken into if they had any idea of what kinds of possessions I have.

I also want to maintain absolute purity in being non confrontational unless given no alternative. I think any sort of visible deterrents other than cameras wouldnt have the desired effect because the multiple cases of beer they seem to consume nightly.

My other good neighbors would probably freak out as they already look at me oddly when I invite them to the range.

I also think part of it has to do with pack mentality, when its one or two of them no one says crap (I am a physically large guy) but in a group they want to show the others how strong they are so they run there mouth and count on the pack to defend them if they were to get challenged.
 
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BGutzman

New member
Thanks guys, I am looking at all these ideas.

One of the real strengths of this forum is the depth and variety of knowledge.

Thanks to all of you! The more suggestions the better.
 
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comn-cents

New member
Rifleman1776 "If you have a military type rifle (AK, AR, etc.) put a banana clip (empty) in it, sling across your back and walk around inside your garage where you can be seen. Do this whenever they are doing their thing. Don't say a word, just let yourself be seen. Then put it away, come back and just stand staring at them. Whatever you do, don't say anything or respond to taunting, just stare".

Some of the worst advise I've ever heard.

They are being loud at 2am call the cops. If they are being threatening call the cops. Brandishing a weapon in hopes to intimidate someone is just irresponsible. If you were to do this, doing it with an empty mag is just plan stupid. You have know idea what they are capable of and to display a gun just tells them there are things in your house that they might want to steel. Good luck and stay safe.
 
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oneounceload

Moderator
Rifleman1776 "If you have a military type rifle (AK, AR, etc.) put a banana clip (empty) in it, sling across your back and walk around inside your garage where you can be seen. Do this whenever they are doing their thing. Don't say a word, just let yourself be seen. Then put it away, come back and just stand staring at them. Whatever you do, don't say anything or respond to taunting, just stare".

Some of the worst advise I've ever heard.

They are being loud at 2am call the cops. If they are being threatening call the cops. Brandishing a weapon in hopes to intimidate someone is just irresponsible. If you were to do this, doing it with an empty mag is just plan stupid. You have know idea what they are capable of and to display a gun just tells them there are things in your house that they might want to steel. Good luck and stay safe.
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Not to mention, their guns might not be UNloaded - brandishing will do nothing but escalate an issue into a problem
 
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Spats McGee

Administrator
Of the ideas listed, here are the ones I agree with:

1) Security cameras -- Once they're up and running, though, remember that they're running, so smile sweetly and wave (using all of your fingers, please) when you see them. That way the judge or jury can see just how neighborly you're being.

2) Call the city or county -- Fire department, code enforcement office, city or county attorney, police department. If they can't help immediately, they can file reports and start "building the file" that they'll need later. Ask them about code violations, noise violations, whether your neighbors are becoming (legally) a nuisance to the neighborhood.

3) If they're being threatening, call the cops.

Otherwise, I'd also say:

A) Do not walk around with an unloaded assault weapon in your garage, waiting to be seen. That invites disaster on many levels.

B) If they're being particularly loud one in the wee hours of the morning, open a window on the side of the house that faces them, and record it. It's a pain, but it helps build that file.

C) Call the police department and ask if you can have copies of any other complaints lodged about that address over, well, however long they've been there. These reports may be public records, which would get you access to them. That will help you get contact information for the other neighbors (see D, below), as well as gives you something to hand over to the city and county when you talk to them. Help them help you.

D) Contact the other neighbors. It will be easier to get the city/county involved if you've got several neighbors complaining.

E) Your city ordinances can be found here: http://library1.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=11490&doc_action=whatsnew
 
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sixgun67

New member
I have neighbors that are quite similar. Minimum of 6 adult occupants and three infants in the household. No fingers or directed name calling yet, though. They back any one of their 6 vehicles out of their driveway, completely across the road, and smash my mailbox, then peel out leaving a black mark when they get back onto the pavement. I've put 3 mailboxes up in the 4 years or so that they have been there. Their minor children have stolen from me a few times, cut a truck tire, drained the wife's gas tank and much more. The son's girlfriend ratted him out to me, but that's not enough for the cops. Then, there is the 3 loud assed harleys at all hours of the day and night, not just ingress or egress. 'test driving' in our development---really, just what kind of test is going full throttle up and down the street?
Nobody in the household works, so just how they make a living is one of those things that make you go 'hmmmmmm?'

I've installed infrared cameras on my property, and several motion sensors.

Say what you will about carrying a weapon giving them ideas of what to steal next, but they have backed off of me in the last year, since I took to mowing the lawn a time or two with a drop leg holstered auto. Now, the other neighbors still get hit occasionally, but not me again so far as of yet.

By the way, be careful of the camera angles. Make sure that those cameras are not pointed directly and obviously at your neighbors place. They can get you for invasion of privacy, as they can expect a measure of privacy in their own yard, just as you do. How about something like covering the mailbox, with a little higher angle over it--at least make it appear that you're not trying to film them solely.
 
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MikeNice81

New member
I appreciate all the advice! It wouldnt even be quite the thorn it is but loud music and foul language at 2 am during weekdays and weekends gets quite old.

I dont understand people that feel they must peel out there hot rod on a residental street with several very young children running around and not always so well supervised.
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Every time they do either one of these call the cops. Being loud and disruptive at 2am on a weekday is not legal in any town I know. Plus spinning tires can be careless and reckless driving. Get their plate number. Then every time the spin out of the drive way, while kids are playing, call and report them for reckless driving.

If any of them are leaving the property while drunk report them for drunk driving. If they are walking on the sidewalk, report them for public intoxication.

You can do it without giving your name or address. Eventually they will leave. That or the cops will start pushing for harder punishments because they are tired of having to ticket these people or drag them in. After a certain number of violations the law will start to increase the punishment any way. Four or five reckless driving tickets can cost a person their license. Three or four drunk and disorderly, or public drunkenness, arrest can land you in county for thirty days.

Multiple visits by the police may even be reason for the Home Owner's Association to begin eviction proceedings.
 
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nathaniel

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We had a group of college kids move in down the street last year. You can about guess what happened, cars for blocks, loud music all night, and what annoys me most beer cans/bottles in our yard. Mom runs a daycare and this kinda stuff cant be happening so I picked up all the bottles and dropped them off in their front yard. Then the next friday I came home at 1 in the morning from coyote hunting and couldnt park ANYWHERE they were even parked in our drive way so I called the cops and got all the cars on our property towed. After awhile they didnt have big parties anymore. If I were you Id do what a few people have suggested and document EVERYTHING, it may be a pain but it will help in the long run.
 
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BGutzman

New member
I truly am going as non confrontational as possible and I want to keep it that way. I do not want to bring arms into this. Yes, I am almost always in CCW mode but I always figures that just multiplies my responsibility to be as polite and civil as possible. Im not leaving my lawn or garage and stopping whatever I am doing just because of insults but neither am I responding to them other than maintaining vigilance.

If I had to yes I would retreat into my garage or house in order to remove myself or my family from conflict but I would also call law enforcement if that becomes necessary. So far no one has crossed the street yet and maybe they wont but it does call for caution.

No matter the insult I pretend like I didnt hear it, yesterday I used there words to demonstrate to my teenagers the kinds of people they dont want to be.

There are a lot of great ideas here. I am going to call my HOA today and do some research, the cameras will be up in the next few days.
 
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BlueTrain

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It sounds funny to me but this almost sounds like the exact opposite of a lot of posts here where someone is doing their handloading in the garage and want to be left alone by their nosy neighbors. Having a sofa in your garage is illegal. Now I'm on the side of those that want the government off my back, even if I don't have a sofa. I do have a refridgerator, though.

Seriously, though, tread lightly. Last week, within a mile of my home, someone was shot and killed over a speed bump (This was in Springfield, VA). It seems someone didn't care for a certain other people speeding through his neighborhood and eventually managed to get a speed bump put in. For some reason it was put in right in front of the house of the person that wanted it. One thing led to another and there was some pushing and shoving and no doubt serious name calling, and the police were called. One man (the speeder) was arrested. That apparently was the last straw. He went to the other man's house, tied him up and shot him with a .22. Dead. There was probably a long history of un-neighborliness there but that was the net result.

Why don't you try taking them a case of beer?
 
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