bad frisking at courthouse

[Betty]

This happened a couple months ago, but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me. I was getting an order of protection against my ex-boyfriend, so we both had to go to court. (He didn't show up.) I couldn't legally carry my pistol or any of my knives or baton into the courthouse, so I left everything at home or hidden and locked in my vehicle. I knew they would do searches or I would have to go through a metal detector.

Well, there was one male cop frisking all the men who were going into the courtroom (all of us in that room were involved in order of protections), but when I came up, the only thing he did was look into my purse. He did a very half-a$$ job, not even looking into the side pockets where I could have easily slid my Kahr into. None of the women were body searched. If it takes a female officer to search the women, there was none present, which I considered foolish and dangerous.There were no metal detectors. I could've easily walked in there with a shotgun under my coat, and the single officer wouldn't be able to stop me until too late.

I guess the women were all considered the "victims" and therefore perceived as being harmless. What if I was the psychotic wife sending death threats and had numerous attempts trying to kill my husband? An order of protection is a SERIOUS thing, and the system failed to protect those in that room from the people they were trying to keep from harming them.

I did not feel safe. If the law says I cannot carry my weapon in a federal building in order to protect myself, than I expect adequete measures be taken to protect me.

 

[JWR]

It's not your fault, but you are not very in tune with reality. Everybody knows that all women are helpless victims and all men are potential violent abusers. And, if a woman did go into into the courthouse and shoot her male counterpart, the male had obviously done something to deserve it.

Okay, maybe I'm a little sarcastic. But I will tell you something: when I went through OBC (part of becoming an officer and a gentleman), I was told in no uncertain terms that opening the door for a female officer, insisting she go first, etc., could be construed as sexual harassment under UCMJ. So I certainly think that it is within the realm of possibility that the male guard was instructed to not lay his hands on a female unless in a situation that had already become violent.

If you have not done so already, I would bring this concern up to whatever big mucky-mucks are in charge in your neck of the woods. Maybe a letter to the local paper.

 

[Bogie]

I agree... I've encountered lax searches before (in one instance, I could have easily snuck a mousegun through airport security), but I generally get the feeling that if it bitch about it, I'll end up in a closet somewhere while someone large, ugly and sadistic performs a cavity search...

 

[LawDog]

Male officers can't search female individuals and vice versa because of sexual harrassment fears. These typically lead to massive lawsuits that LEAs almost never win.

In the Academy, we were taught that, in a pinch, we could use the back of our hand to frisk the waistband area of a female individual, but were then warned that even that minimum level of contact would probably result in a lawsuit.

Female officers are generally in such short supply that it becomes a matter of where is she needed more. Any female officer on duty at the time were probably in Booking.

*sigh*

As far as searching your purse, an officer can look into your purse with the aid of a flashlight, but is not allowed to reach inside of it. The officer can ask you to move things about inside the purse, and I would have had you unzip the side pockets.

Galls sells some good hand-held metal detectors that the local Chief/Sheriff needs to try to get into the budget to head off problems of this kind in the future.

LawDog

 

[citizen]

Bad Frisking......

This happened "months ago"?

And you're still smouldering?

And this is your first comment to anyone?

And you're disappointed "Big Brother" failed to adequately
protect you?

Contacted anyone at the courthouse yet?

Still relying on "Big Brother"?

Yes, this may be an appropriate venue to vent and rant; hope you feel better, now.
I've done the same.
There, now it's time to ACT on it.
Best of luck.

 

[BadMedicine]

I will never get a restraining order against anyone. there is a law (I think federal) that I heard about that keeps anyone who has a restraining order from purchasing or owning firearms!!! That is jacked. Some people get overly excited, and if a restraining order gives them peace of mind, let them have one. But they are too easy to obtain, they don't have to show real threats, or stalking just "percieved threats" (ie, looking at somebody wrong, or cussing them!!) Sometimes real psyco's will do it out of spite, to "prove" they have something over you!! If I have that big of a problem with somebody I'll meet them in a parking lot and break their knees with a bat (or hire bruno to do it) but would never get somebodies rights stripped over something that stupid.

runt of the litter: I don't know your circumstances, and am not trying to say that this guy is not a threat to you (obviously you feel he is if you carry guns, knives, and a baton!!!WOW!!) And for you this may be the only option, (and this jerk may not be trusted with guns, for your safety) but if somebody did this to me, me not being a violent person and all, I'd [edited] them just for the irony

 

[Betty]

Thank you all for your comments.

LawDog:
He did stick his hands in my purse, which I had no problem with. I didn't know he wasn't supposed to do that.

citizen:
Yes, it happened months ago, October 23, 2000, at 9am CST.
No, nor did I say I was smouldering. Just bugged.
No.
No, nor I am surprised.
No, I knew I would get the response LawDog gave in sayng there is a shortage of female officers.
No, nor have I. That's why I carry concealed in the first place.

BadMedicine:
Yes, anyone who has a restraining order on him/her (or been convicted of domestic violence) is disallowed from owning a firearm ever again. I am aware that many people abuse the order of protection. I have done everything I could to try to resolve the situation peacefully without involving the law. He did not want it that way, so he got what he deserved, and I am not the least bit sorry. What really freaked me out is that he knows I'm that well armed and he still persisted in harrassing me. That I found to be psychotic.

 

[deanf]

Is it any restraining order at all, or is it any order related to an alleged domestic violence situation?

I mean, I could get a restraining order against this old lady who always brings her dog by my house to crap in my front yard, but would that prohibit her from owning guns?

 

[ma96782]

You wouldn't believe the misuse of restraining orders that I see....

People who just wanna break off a relationship
People getting a "mini" divorce w/o the paperwork
People getting ready for a messy child custody battle
People who don't want the other party to have visitation
People getting revenge (job requires party to be armed)

I'm not saying that all restraining orders are gotten w/ evil motivations, but when you can deny a right (RKBA) w/o a trial or conviction, something is wrong w/ that picture.

Just my .02


HOW ABOUT THIS:

For those of you that live in un-friendly CCW situations........how about applying for a CCW permit......when the Chief LEO denies the permit.....and later on, you get hurt from your ex-.........than sue the POLICE CHIEF, POLICE DEPT. etc........you get the picture.

You are ultimately responsible for your own safety.

Though the Liberals have shifted the burden to the government (taxpayers) to ensure the safety of your butt. I think there is something wrong about that picture.

 

[Hal]

runt-
FWIW, I know where you're coming from here. My ex-wife is currently serving a 7-25 here in Ohio and is up for her first parole hearing in March.(Not related to my problems with her) I doubt if she will get it, but you never know. She did a romp in the sack with some guy, and charged his $250.00's worth of car work to MY credit card as payment to have me 'hit" back in '73. I'm only still here becasue A.)She gave him a STD. B.) He stupidly signed my name to the credit card reciept. C.) She managed to screw herslf up on drugs enough to divert her attention from the real world.
I've "heard"(please, don't even ask how) that she has made no bones about repaying old debts when/if she gets out,, if not sooner. Since she's been realtivly clean of drugs for the last 7 years, it's getting a bit uncomfortable. Without getting into a bad actor vs bad actor situation here. My ex is, smart-almost at if not over the genius level.(She intentionaly skewed her high school IQ tests just to eff with the authorities. Lord only knows how smart she really is. Has zero concience. Uses her looks, and everthing else to get her way. etcetera, etcetera. I could go on, but an open forum isn't quite the place for it. I read a lot of keyboard tactics, and how to deal with situations, and can fully appreciate the real world situations. In my case, a protection order against my ex, would only serve as a challange to her authority, or a challange to "beat the system". Tough call on your part as to which way to go, and I can appreciate what you had to go through to decide to go that route.

You said:
"What really freaked me out is that he knows I'm that well armed and he still persisted in harrassing me"

That hits home like a freight train with me.

I've lived/am living through that right now. It's terrifying because it shows there is no reason behind the motive. Just pure hatred and a desire to "win" at all costs. I don't know you're specific situation,but in my case a direct confrontaion isn't what worries me. I'm armed at times, and I've practiced like hell over the last few years and feel confident enough to meet any threat head on either armed or unarmed.

Be safe young lady, I don't have to remind you this isn't a what if scenerio by any stretch. FWIW, this forum is an excellent source, as is the battered/abused women shelters and hotlines. I've learned an awful lot here.

If you need to talk, I'll get you an email addy.

[Edited by RAE on 01-06-2001 at 08:28 AM]

 

[Ron L]

Let me chime in with my 2 cents. We had a problem neighbor who really was violent. There were witnessed cases of fights, even with his father, punching holes in walls, damaging cars in the neighborhood, and many examples of drug and alcohol use. One morning, at 3 am, in front of the Livonia PD, he threatened to kick my @ss and "take out my b!tch wife" when she wouldn't expect and "that goes for those kids too". We were at the district court at 9 that same morning. I didn't really believe that a protection order would really keep someone hell-bent on hurting you away, but it certainly gave my wife a little more peace of mind. Face it, I could carry in the house, but I had to eventually go to work and leave the house. It is stated on the paperwork that someone who has a protection order against them can't purchase, but it didn't detail if it was just for a period of time or forever. Someone violent gets a protection order sworn against them and they have to appear in court to dispute it if they want to try to keep it off a record. The lady who lets the dog crap in the front yard would receive a restraining order to keep her from doing something. There are slight differences.

As far as the courthouse goes, believe me, Detroit's Wayne county court is pretty danged secure. Not even a SAK, small multitool or the like are allowed in there. It's either give it up at the door or leave it in your car. They have male and female guards and detector wands as well as a walk-through thing. They examined every purse, pocket, briefcase, and organizer. Sure it took a little longer to go through a line, but they were actually thorough with what they were doing. Part of it may have been that a local news station tries to catch public workers lax at their jobs and then sensationalize their reports. If it helped to keep them on their toes, so be it.