Back in the day CCW
- Thread starter MarkCO
- Start date
I probably missed the real conversations by a few years, but we were still talks by about those basic conversations when I started online.
Too bad Glock ruined it all! Actually, they did push the expectation of a good black finish!
I still struggle to think much more out of the box than 1911 vs jframe for my ccw.
Too bad Glock ruined it all! Actually, they did push the expectation of a good black finish!
I still struggle to think much more out of the box than 1911 vs jframe for my ccw.
My formative years in shooting were in the late 1980's and what occurs to me often is how much differently I think because of maturity and changing times.
That doesn't really get my point across -- what I mean to say is that when I grew up, ONLY cops (or bad guys, I suppose) carried guns. Getting a license to carry was not only a mystery, it was not only very hard to get, it was very rare and it was my understanding (in my state) that you needed to PROVE a quality and specific reason for "needing" it and whether or not you got one had as much to do with the mood or character of the issuing agency head or person that happened to make the decision or have the pen that signed off on it. This was Michigan, circa 1988. And how TRUE all of that is... I have no idea, but that was the feeling and typical thought process that I was aware of at the time.
It was MANY years later after Florida began setting the precedent that it even occurred to me that a regular, law-abiding private citizen would be able to get such a license with no "reason" beyond wanting it or having the right to do it.
And yet, I still had much maturity in front of me -- because it didn't seem like something I had any desire to do at the time. Even still, I investigated the legislation here in Ohio and to put it bluntly... it was train-wreck AWFUL as it was first written. It was like a heavy, locked door had been locked since day one and at the first hint, it opened a crack and we got ONLY our finger in that crack. Far, far less then ideal. Awful, to be honest, having your FINGER jammed in the door keeping it open... but at least it was open. If you know what I mean.
And it has gotten far, far better, by leaps and bounds because of the diligent work by a number of good people who I am extremely happy to support.
That doesn't really get my point across -- what I mean to say is that when I grew up, ONLY cops (or bad guys, I suppose) carried guns. Getting a license to carry was not only a mystery, it was not only very hard to get, it was very rare and it was my understanding (in my state) that you needed to PROVE a quality and specific reason for "needing" it and whether or not you got one had as much to do with the mood or character of the issuing agency head or person that happened to make the decision or have the pen that signed off on it. This was Michigan, circa 1988. And how TRUE all of that is... I have no idea, but that was the feeling and typical thought process that I was aware of at the time.
It was MANY years later after Florida began setting the precedent that it even occurred to me that a regular, law-abiding private citizen would be able to get such a license with no "reason" beyond wanting it or having the right to do it.
And yet, I still had much maturity in front of me -- because it didn't seem like something I had any desire to do at the time. Even still, I investigated the legislation here in Ohio and to put it bluntly... it was train-wreck AWFUL as it was first written. It was like a heavy, locked door had been locked since day one and at the first hint, it opened a crack and we got ONLY our finger in that crack. Far, far less then ideal. Awful, to be honest, having your FINGER jammed in the door keeping it open... but at least it was open. If you know what I mean.
And it has gotten far, far better, by leaps and bounds because of the diligent work by a number of good people who I am extremely happy to support.
Not me. Not old enough. But I might argue that it's only one's perception that those times were "simpler." Today is wildly different to be sure, but to just call the old days "simpler" isn't accurate, in my opinion. I could make a spirited argument to support that stance... but clearly, I've thread-drifted enough in one post.
Sevens, I started the thread and I do not think you drifted it at all. That is why I put (if you had one) in parenthesis as not many people had guns for protection. LEOs, criminals and a few businessmen/truckers carried guns and that was about it.
The place of the gun in our society is much different today than it was years ago. I am not sure how much, as an 8th grader, having one of my classmates shoot and kill another of my classmates (Deer Creek Middle School, 1982) have formed my impressions on firearms in general, but it is part of my personal history. I also recall turning 21 and going to buy my first handgun and how limited the options for a college student were. Now there are almost endless options in a bunch of different platforms.
I think history is important and I thank you for your post Sevens, if for no other reason than I hope some of the younger (and I do not count myself as old quite yet) forums members gain wisdom from the discussion.
The place of the gun in our society is much different today than it was years ago. I am not sure how much, as an 8th grader, having one of my classmates shoot and kill another of my classmates (Deer Creek Middle School, 1982) have formed my impressions on firearms in general, but it is part of my personal history. I also recall turning 21 and going to buy my first handgun and how limited the options for a college student were. Now there are almost endless options in a bunch of different platforms.
I think history is important and I thank you for your post Sevens, if for no other reason than I hope some of the younger (and I do not count myself as old quite yet) forums members gain wisdom from the discussion.
Doc Holliday 1950
New member
I remember vividly that in 1970 when I went into being in the Aux LEO
for my home town in NJ, as stated before they only carried 38 specials. I got lucky when I went looking for my first and bought a slightly used Python 4".
That's what I trained on and carried. Yes, the only discussions were about the finish. I don't live there anymore since 1973 so I don't quite know the new carry laws there. The only JQ Citizens that had 38's were Liqueur store owners, Jewelers or Private Eyes & etc.( I'm not 100% sure on this ).
Doc
for my home town in NJ, as stated before they only carried 38 specials. I got lucky when I went looking for my first and bought a slightly used Python 4".
That's what I trained on and carried. Yes, the only discussions were about the finish. I don't live there anymore since 1973 so I don't quite know the new carry laws there. The only JQ Citizens that had 38's were Liqueur store owners, Jewelers or Private Eyes & etc.( I'm not 100% sure on this ).
Doc
I received my doctorate in 1982, so I suppose I am one of the codgers that you want to hear from.
The attitude towards firearms was much different in my youth. Guns were hardware, and we had hardware stores that carried that kind of hardware in stock. Sears had firearms, both in the stores and in the catalog, but the nearest Sears store was 40 minutes away by car. Guns were just merchandise, and different stores had them. Lots of homes had guns, and lots had them displayed guns behind glass or on racks on the walls. Licensed carry was rare, but keeping a handgun in an unlocked bedside drawer or a glove compartment was common. I couldn't support it with statistics, but my perception was that crimes with firearms were less common, too. I also don't recall the hysterical reaction to firearms, firearm owners, or even firearms crimes that we hear today. In my long ago youth, people were bad actors and guns were objects whose purpose depended on the user. Odd way to think, but we were kind of backward then.
Bill DeShivs
New member
I can remember when the Gun Control Act of 1968 was enacted.
One of it's provisions was to outlaw the importation of pocket guns. None (to speak of) were made in the US at the time.
People had (and carried) Brownings, Astras, Stars, Bernardellis, Galesis, Berettas etc. in calibers from .22 short to .380. These guns were quite prolific.
In about 1972 demand was great enough for US gunmakers to produce pocket guns. Generally these were small autos like the banned European guns.
I started legally carrying a gun in 1975. "Serious" carry guns were J frame .38 spls and Colt Detective Specials. The rage in this era was the new stainless steel guns. Few around here carried large automatics.
One of it's provisions was to outlaw the importation of pocket guns. None (to speak of) were made in the US at the time.
People had (and carried) Brownings, Astras, Stars, Bernardellis, Galesis, Berettas etc. in calibers from .22 short to .380. These guns were quite prolific.
In about 1972 demand was great enough for US gunmakers to produce pocket guns. Generally these were small autos like the banned European guns.
I started legally carrying a gun in 1975. "Serious" carry guns were J frame .38 spls and Colt Detective Specials. The rage in this era was the new stainless steel guns. Few around here carried large automatics.
I grew up in remote mountains in the 50s and 60s. Everyone had rifles and shotguns but very few had handguns. It was unusual for a pick-up not to have a few long guns in a gun rack in the back window. The State Police and local police officers (all men) are the only people that carried guns. A few women had a little 32 in their purse but nobody knew or cared.
We ordered our guns from Sears and they came in the mail. We bought our ammo at the closest country store and it didn't matter what your age was.
We ordered our guns from Sears and they came in the mail. We bought our ammo at the closest country store and it didn't matter what your age was.
aarondhgraham
New member
When I was a kid,,,
When I was a kid,,,
When dinosaurs ruled the earth,,,
I remember my Mom, Grandfather, most uncles carried a small revolver.
Not one of them ever used a holster.
Grandpa carried his "Owls Head" in his Levi's jacket pocket,,,
My uncles did the same or just set it on the dash,,,
Mom had a S&W tucked in a hanky in her bra.
I grew up where most of the men around me wore a western sport coat and tie,,,
They just put the handgun in the pocket and went about their day.
The only one I remember carrying a semi-auto was Uncle Stan,,,
He was a WW-II combat veteran and drove a taxi,,,
He kept a 1911 on the seat beside him,,,
Usually folded in the newspaper.
Before the GCA of 1968,,,
My sister kept a revolver in her purse.
This is mid 50's to late 60's Oklahoma.
Aarond
.
When I was a kid,,,
When dinosaurs ruled the earth,,,
I remember my Mom, Grandfather, most uncles carried a small revolver.
Not one of them ever used a holster.
Grandpa carried his "Owls Head" in his Levi's jacket pocket,,,
My uncles did the same or just set it on the dash,,,
Mom had a S&W tucked in a hanky in her bra.
I grew up where most of the men around me wore a western sport coat and tie,,,
They just put the handgun in the pocket and went about their day.
The only one I remember carrying a semi-auto was Uncle Stan,,,
He was a WW-II combat veteran and drove a taxi,,,
He kept a 1911 on the seat beside him,,,
Usually folded in the newspaper.
Before the GCA of 1968,,,
My sister kept a revolver in her purse.
This is mid 50's to late 60's Oklahoma.
Aarond
.
In the 50's and early 60's when I grew up there was no talk of CCW in the rural areas where I lived in Montana...but there were a lot of handguns around / hanging in holsters in the mud room, etc...and duty guns from some LEO's in the family ...( Victory model S&W .38 spl / a model 28 S&W...a couple of 1911's ).... and handguns were carried in the woods hiking, camping...and during big game hunting season as a "killing gun" or as a backup..
Yes, things have changed a lot...even in rural communities today .../ the number of options we have on handguns today are phenominal compared to what was around in the 50's ...more calibers, wider variety of commercial ammo, better reloading equipment, better holsters... ( but my handgun collection is still primarily comprised of about 20 or so S&W revolvers ( K, L and N frames - in .22, a lot in .357 mag ( model 19, 27 & 28's ) and 29's ) and 1911's ( but I've added a few high quality 1911's in 9mm that I really like these days ).
Yes, things have changed a lot...even in rural communities today .../ the number of options we have on handguns today are phenominal compared to what was around in the 50's ...more calibers, wider variety of commercial ammo, better reloading equipment, better holsters... ( but my handgun collection is still primarily comprised of about 20 or so S&W revolvers ( K, L and N frames - in .22, a lot in .357 mag ( model 19, 27 & 28's ) and 29's ) and 1911's ( but I've added a few high quality 1911's in 9mm that I really like these days ).
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bamaranger
New member
I remember......
The .45 acp was near cult status, I guess, still is, and a lightweight Commander was the epitome. The Officers model was not yet on the market. Stainless revolvers were big, and finding a M66-w/ 2 inch tube, round butt was an accomplishment, and there was a wait time if you ordered one. The M60 Chief was popular to, commanded a higher price, and hard to find as well.
I bought a brushed nickel, steel Commander, put a set of Millets on it, and really thought I was something. But the pistol never really ran right, despite the attention of a good local 'smith, and much money spent on multiple mags and factory ball ammo. Eventually I sold it for a loss.
The .45 acp was near cult status, I guess, still is, and a lightweight Commander was the epitome. The Officers model was not yet on the market. Stainless revolvers were big, and finding a M66-w/ 2 inch tube, round butt was an accomplishment, and there was a wait time if you ordered one. The M60 Chief was popular to, commanded a higher price, and hard to find as well.
I bought a brushed nickel, steel Commander, put a set of Millets on it, and really thought I was something. But the pistol never really ran right, despite the attention of a good local 'smith, and much money spent on multiple mags and factory ball ammo. Eventually I sold it for a loss.
When I entered LE in 1963 my first hand gun was a 4" Mod 19 S&W that i paid $82.57 for at 1pm and was carrying on my first shift at 4pm. I carried that pistol on and off duty as well as using it for shooting numbers of PPC matches on the departmental team, in those days I would get off graveyard shift and ride with team mates to a distant city for a match. Same pistol in duty holster back on duty that night. I finally bought a J frame and was in heaven as to the concealability over the 19, that some years later, was traded on the then new Mod 60...still in the safe today.
I was also able to purchase one of the first S&W mod 39's out f the trunk of factory rep Chuck Cheshire's company car....this pistol paved the way for my department to eventually approve Smith semi autos. A pre war PPK was my plain clothes buddy for many years, when not packing a J frame it is also in the safe. Wish i still had the 19, i put untold thousands off rounds through it and it would still shoot a possible on the PPC course.
Another super special duty pistol I carried for a time was a 6" mod 19 that S&W trimed to 5" at my request, probably the best feeling revolver i have had and it would clean a PPC target without much help from me. I later gave it to a friend as he entered the police academy for training. If 19's were still cheap I would build another 5" for shooting fun.
I was also able to purchase one of the first S&W mod 39's out f the trunk of factory rep Chuck Cheshire's company car....this pistol paved the way for my department to eventually approve Smith semi autos. A pre war PPK was my plain clothes buddy for many years, when not packing a J frame it is also in the safe. Wish i still had the 19, i put untold thousands off rounds through it and it would still shoot a possible on the PPC course.
Another super special duty pistol I carried for a time was a 6" mod 19 that S&W trimed to 5" at my request, probably the best feeling revolver i have had and it would clean a PPC target without much help from me. I later gave it to a friend as he entered the police academy for training. If 19's were still cheap I would build another 5" for shooting fun.
In Jackson Co. Iowa the Sheriff issues a CCW after a class. 42 years ago Iowa was still "may issue". I turned 21 and got mine. It was a paper copy at the time and cost $5.00. I carried my $180 R serial nr .38 SS Chief Mod 60 in a S&W shoulder holster most of the time. I was not law enforcement.
My first wife was from a very bad neighborhood. You heard gunfire at night a lot. Everyone had bars on their doors and windows. Crackheads were always trying to sell you random things they'd stolen. You get the picture.
When I went there at night I would have my snub 38 or my Makarov in my waistband.
When I went there at night I would have my snub 38 or my Makarov in my waistband.