Aussie newbie applies for license

Benonymous

New member
Hi all.

I've been lurking for a while and had nothing to post until now.
After doing extensive research I joined a pistol club here in my city and began the paper trail necessary to eventually own a handgun. I just thought I'd appraise you of the process and maybe any other Aussies on the forum could benefit.
The initial licensing process should take around two weeks. This includes a thorough police check by the Firearms Licensing Dept. After that has been rubberstamped, I will be on a sort of "provisional" license that allows me to actually pick up and use a handgun. Prior to this being official I am not permitted by law to even handle a pistol much less fire it. They actually call the provisional licens an "exemption" as it exempts me from this particular law. Once I have waited out my "exemption" and have been granted a license, I must then wait another three months before I can lodge an "Intention to Purchase" application. These are legendary for getting "lost" in the process of approval. However, now that I have lodged the Intention to Purchase I must now instal and have inspected, an approved gun locker or safe to store the firearm in. The Police, acting for the Licensing Dept. will come and inspect the locker and and if it complies with the regulations, I can then go ahead and buy a pistol. This goes for evrything from an air pistol to a .50cal (not sure if I could legally buy a .50...) All paper target shooting in Australia is limited to "Service" calibre ie: .38 (even though our police are armed with 9mm Glocks) If you want to shoot anything "over calibre" you must only, I repeat only, use that handgun for metallic silhouette competitions or practise. If you have any hadguns in your posession at any time, you must be either going-to or coming-from an approved range. You also must be a member of an approved club before any of the other stuff too, getting a license, owning, shooting etc. The final kicker is that if you own any type of handgun you must use it in a competition at least six times a year. Thats six times for each discipline. So if you have an air pistol, a .38 , a.22 and a .45 you'll be up for twenty four COMPETITION shoots per year just to keep your license for each of those handguns. Sorry for the length of this post but I have tried to apply the nutshell principle to this, it wasnt easy. Anyway, bugger the legislators, I'm going to eventually get a .22 a .38 and a 9mm along with a couple of rifles hopefully.
The costs associated with this run into the hundreds, that's before I even buy a gun of any kind. There is no doubt in my mind that this complex mess was formulated to actively discourage people from owning guns for any purpose but I'm a firm believer in the theory that if the crims know for a fact that ordinary citizens are unarmed, they can do as they please. Thanks for your patience if you've read this far, I'll keep the board updated as to my progress in the legislative jungle.... :eek:
 

MCIWS

New member
Wow! I really liked Australia when I visited. Thats a bummer that this kind of mentality is put into law. I love guns. I feel very sorry for you Brother and I hope you don't let this ridiculous task deter you from becoming an owner.
 

Lawyer Daggit

New member
Aussie Laws

The laws in respect to handgun ownership in Australia have been tough since the 30's and effectively makes handgun ownership not worth the effort for many of us- although most of our gun crime is committed with handguns that have never been licenced and I understand (although it may be an urban myth) that the NSW Police 'lost '2 pallets of Glock 9mm pistols on the docks when changing over from 38 S&W's.

Rifle shotgun and rifle laws, while cumbersome, requiring a 'permit to acquire' and 28 day cooling off period for each firearm are tedious but more liveable.
 

DarkKnight01

New member
its things like this that make me happy and proud to be an American...

Australia has its share of problems.... but those beautiful white sand beaches make up for it somewhat heh...
 

Walter

New member
...Never been to Australia...

...but I've always wanted to go. However, their government's turn toward
more restrictive gun laws has dampened my desire to go there.

Same thing with Canada. I know it's a beautiful country, with fabulous
hunting and fishing, but the total disrespect I have encountered at the
Canadian border has killed any desire I had to go into Canada for any
length of time.

Maybe it all goes back to the "British Empire". Some sort of 'anti-gun'
sentiment that seems to run through the government bureaucracy in
all the "British Protectorates".

I feel sorry for the people who live in those countries who have to tolerate
an intolerant, incompetent, paranoid government regime that deems only
'government designated" people are allowed to own firearms.

Just one more reason why I support the NRA.
 

roscoe

New member
Tell me, what would be the minimum costs to have a .38 and shoot it the minimum number of times in competition?
 

Benonymous

New member
Roscoe, I'm not sure of the actual costs of competition but after all of the license and club fees are paid, I think I'll be around $340-350AUD lighter. Also I beleive that each additional class of handgun you want brings an additional $100 in annual licensing per class. So if I have a .22, .38, and a .45 I'd be up for $300AUD per year just for licenses.

As far as thefts go I think the most irritating gun theft we had here was from the appropriately named "Obliging Security" The theives took over thirty Glock 17s. So far the police have only recovered one, yes one of these. The gun was thrown into a dumpster after it was used in a fatal shooting. A five year old could do that kind of police work. Another robbery was committed at a military base and the crims got away with Steyer assault rifles and even rocket launchers. While regular citizens drown in paperwork, we have the best armed criminals in our reigon!!! :mad: .
The last round of legislation over here, put in place all of the weird caliber restrictionsfor competition and made any type of compact gun illegal. This was intended to get "more guns out of the community" said the Prime Miniature. Problem is, none of these restrictions apply to criminals and people who own unregistered/illegal weapons and as has been amply demonstrated, the police are completely ineffective when it comes to locating these items and prosecuting the people who own them. They have to wait until the gun is used in a crime, then track down the perps, by that time, many will have disposed of the weapon.
I'm all for responsible gun ownership and effective licensing/registration. I would also have a gun safe regardless of whether some dumbass politician makes me, its just good sense. But why ruin events like Practical Shooting by slapping caliber restriction on it (.38 only) which makes it impossible for any Aussie shooter to compete internationally? Every other country shoots 9mm or .40/.45 . It's just so stupid, if there was a sensible reason, I'd be for it but this is controlled range shooting not a bunch of guys blazing away in a field.
 

Blue Heeler

Moderator
Dude-The laws are crap. We all know that. One caliber is 6 shoots a year. More than one is 4 each. 9mm and .38/.357 are the same (same size bullet too) If you have a .22 and any one or all of the above calibers then you have 8 shoots to record.
This crap is not new, it has happened here before. It will die in a welter of red tape, as it did the last time.

What you really need to consider is this:- Do I comply with all this airey-fairy pansy Socialist **** - or, do I do what seems right to me?

Only God knows what you've got. And He prefers his people to be armed.
He also drives a Silver Thunderbird -- He's got Cred!
 

Tom2

New member
Swords?

OK, whats all this I hear about swords being banned in Australia? Sort of like the anti's removing bayonet lugs from certain rifles in the US. Never heard of street gangs staging bayonet charges upon each other! They would simply be shot outside of their range! Ridiculous. I own two US civil war swords and a replica "Celtic" short sword I bought on a whim. No regulations I know of in US on swords, except general laws about concealed weapons or in the hands of someone with a weapons disability.
Perhaps they will not sell to under 18's? Never been asked myself. ONce saw news of someone who came at a policeman with a crummy cheap samurai sword, rubbish sold at swapmeets. He did not get very far as the police considered that a deadly, if stupid, threat, and put him in hosp. with several shots. BTW just tried my first bottle of Australian wine, Hardys, very good! Being marketed more visibly and widely than in the past. We do get Fosters here too.
 

Benonymous

New member
Not sure

Tom2, not sure on the swords issue I'd have to look into it.. My Grandad had a ceremonial sword from when he was an Australian Naval Officer, I guess we'd have to hand that over if this was the case.
I'm a fan of Hardys wines too! Just out of interest do you recall the variety and price? It'd be interesting to compare prices. I can mostly buy a really excellent white here for around $12-15AUD, reds similar but you are looking at $20AU upwards for something special. Fosters too eh! It used to be on tap everywhere in Aussie but these days, no longer on tap anywhere and very hard to find even in cans or bottles, weird, everyone thinks it's a ubiquitous Aussie beer.......
 
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Blue Heeler

Moderator
Swords are 'banned' in one state (Victoria) - Like a lot of stuff here nobody pays much attention to it. It does give the Police an extra lever though.
As any Cop knows, you can have a warrant out for someone in a trivial matter and if you need to lift the guy you can - otherwise you just let it sit.
 

MCIWS

New member
Why drink the wine when you have wonderful Victoria Bitter! Fosters is for Shelias! VB is for Mates!

Did I get the terminology correct?
 

Blue Heeler

Moderator
MC - Terminology works OK. And VB is a good beer. Seeing as how I'm a Queenslander I drink Four X (xxxx to us locals)- I only drink it because it is my patriotic duty and because, with judicious application,one can get quite horribly pissed on it. For preference I like to drink Free Beer - It's pretty hard to find around these parts though.
 

Tom2

New member
Hardys and guns

I must address a gun issue or they will kick this off of the forum. (Besides wine). I read an article that told about the old 'roo guns that were sold in Australia long ago. They seem to have imported Winchesters and attached new and novel names to them, but they were quite popular among the hunters. Showed photos of great numbers of 'roos on the way to market after the hunt. The bottle of Hardys cost me 6$ and they had quite a selection of Australian wines in the grocery store, among the Germans, Italians, Portugese, etc. Good price, about the same as a reasonably good California wine. I bought the Shiraz vintage 2002, as I had not ever tried that variety and was not looking for white wine. Believe there are other varieties of your beers besides Fosters around here, must look more carefully next time. Have been sampling German beers lately.
I have seen some Australian SMLE rifles showing up at the gunshows lately, might examine one more closely, as I do not have any Mk.1 type rifles at the moment. There now, the wine is comfortably sandwiched between two gun parts!
 

keko

New member
Sir:

I would be proud to have you as a neighbor here in the good ole U.S. of A.

Immigration to the U.S. is always an option!

Side note: The Aussies are one of the few RELIABLE allies we have. They have ALWAYS been there with the U.S. Unlike our neighbors to the "true" north :barf:
 

Benonymous

New member
Beer for mates

Yeah the VB or as we say here in NSW "veeeb" has taken over as most popular beer, dunno why, it'd not that good in my opinion. I like to drink imports when I can, Belgian beers in particular. Looks like we're paying about the same for the wine too. There are still professional 'Roo shooters over here and the meat is readily available. Its quite a rich taste, gamey I'm told, and very low in fat. I had some on the BBQ a coupla nights ago, lovely!
 

Steve499

New member
Benonymous, keko said what I've been thinking! Come on up here! We have some stupid laws in some jurisdictions but others are almost sensible. Spend all that licensing money on a plane ticket to St. Louis, hit the ground there and claim asylum!
 

Benonymous

New member
Immigration

StLouis sounds pretty good but isn't Arkansas the state for the true gun nut? I read a story that there was a town where it was illegal NOT to own a gun!! There were lots of "cowboy" types walking around with belts and holsters on, wild! It was in Penthouse or some other fine publication of that kind ;) Anyways, I dont' think I'll give up my beaches and cheap wine for a sport I havnt been able to actually try yet :) Thanks for the invitation though. :D
 

aussie bob

New member
G'day,

I am an Aussie pistol shooter and have owned many handguns for over 40 years. Whilst is is fair to say we are over regulated for no gain in safety or reduction in crime. Having said that I feel obliged to offer some corrections to the information given by the original poster if only to not frighten prospective new Australian Pistol Shooters.

Firstly the firearms rules our Prime Minister forced through with bribery of the state polititians, who control firearms in Australia, was supposed to be uniform but the variations from state to state are quite great. However let me discuss particularly New South Wales which has the greatest number of pistol shooters.

A person wanting to be a pistol owner applies to Firearms Registry (FAR) through a pistol club for a provisional approval. This allows him to shoot with a club for 3 months. On satisfactory completion of his probationary period he gets a PAB 26 from his Club Secretary or Captain which he then sends with a request for a Shooters Licence, Category H to FAR. He will then wait about 6 weeks for his probationary licence. After he has held the licence for 6 months he may purchase up to 2 guns. An airpistol, a centrefire up to .38 nominal calibre and a black powder gun (unlimited calibre). If he meets his attendance requirements he, after 6 months, can apply for other guns. He is still limited to .38 calibre but this encompasses .357, 9 mm, 38 ACP, 38 Super etc. Once he has his full licence (12 months) he can also apply for heavy calibres for Western Action and Metallic Silhouette. Here he can go up to .45 which included calibres like .454 Cassul.

His attendances include 6 competitions of an approved type. We are still waiting on a full list but effectively most competitions are approved. He must also put in 4 attendances (they do not have to be competitions) for each class. Our classes are Airpistol, rimfire, centrefire, black powder and heavy calibre. Own 5 classes then you need 20 attendances of which 6 must be competition. If you are doing range duties at open competitions then this counts as a competition attendance. I am a BP & ISSF Range officer.

Permits to Acquire (PTA) are required for every purchase and take an average of 6 weeks to be processed. They cost $30 each and are a once off payment.

Although we can only count one attendance a day we can count multiple category attendances in one day.

Whilst life is a lot more difficult for pistol shooters now in some respects it is like turning the clock back to when I started in the mid 1960's. I have no problems meeting the attendance in fact I run around 100 a year ie twice a week.

Most people who complain are those who plink (a valid reason for a handgun except in the eyes of the law). Our sole reason for a handgun is for competition target pistol shooting.

Each state is different from the other in the technicalities. For example field shooting is allowed in Tasmania and in parts of the Northern Territory but no where else. 28 days wait for a PTA is required in all states however in Victoria, for example, the 28 days applies for the first gun only. After that it can be done in a few days. In NSW we get a PTA for a type eg CF ISSF. In Victoria you have to specify the calibre accurately before the PTA is issued.

Bottom line in Australia is if you want to shoot handguns then do it. Unless you have a criminal record less than 5 years old or a record of violence for example then you will probably get a shooters licence. Don't be turned away by those who talk of doom for the pistols. I have heard the doomsayers speak for over 40 years and I am still shooting pistols (and many of them).

As an example of our crazy laws let me tell you about one that affected me. I bought a Colt Official Police in 38-200 on my H permit i.e. shooting permit. I am required to keep it in my approved safe. Having fired it a few times I wanted to move it to my G permit i.e. collectors permit. Now I have to keep the same gun in the same safe but temporarily disabled. To do this I put a trigger lock on the gun. How stupid? In Victoria if you have more than 5 collectable handguns you must have a return to base alarm. If they are on the shooting permit then return to base alarms are required if you have 15 or more.

Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob
 
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