ATF: %66 of guns in crimes are....

[thaddeus]

The BATF said on CBS news this morning that %33 of guns used in crimes are stolen from homes etc. The far majority of the other %66 of guns in crimes are bought through straw man purchases from gun shops and FFL's, legally, according to a BATF spokesman.

Now, I know that we don't want anymore gun legislation, but that gun stat concerns me. If this is true, it seems to me that it would behoove us all to do something about this. After all, the more we keep guns from criminals the longer we keep our Right legal.
What do you all think? Should we support some sort of measure that keeps criminals from using Straw Man purchases to get their guns? Is there any reasonable legislation possible that would have any effect?

 

[Rich Lucibella]

As I understand existing federal legislation: 5 Years per gun. Run 20 guns into the 'hood...be a guest of the State for 100 years. Now, if we could just figure a way to get 'em to enforce it!
Rich

 

[Bruce from West Oz]

Then ask 'em how many of those guns were stolen from the armed forces (or resold by them!), or from the police, or from Govt-approved "armouries" (where they'd like to see us keep our guns).

Then let's look at the figures!!

For heaven's sake, we had a cop car drive off from a crime investigation 12 months ago and leave a loaded pump action 12g "riot" gun on the footpath (sidewalk)!!!! If it hadn't been for an honest taxi driver ....

B


[This message has been edited by Bruce from West Oz (edited August 13, 1999).]

 

[boing]

That statistic concerns me, too.

The brownshirts say the answer is to make all private sales illegal, period. Of course, that only works if the straw men obey the new law. A year or so later, the brownshirts come back and say "It's not working! The only solution is to ban and confiscate all guns!"

Etc, etc, etc...

-boing

 

[Ground Level]

.

[This message has been edited by Ground Level (edited September 09, 1999).]

 

[dZ]

now and agoin i hear about entire gun factory semi truck shipments being hijacked...

where would these guns go?
do factories really ship a truck load to a distributer?

dZ

 

[James K]

Yes, factories do make bulk shipments to distributors. How else does any commodity get to the wholesaler? These shipments are usually under tight security, but some makers are pretty lax.

I have no reason to doubt the TV show about how one west coast factory left the doors unlocked for anyone to walk in and take cases of guns. Even from a purely business viewpoint, this is idiocy. When the product is guns, it is a danger to society. Those who steal guns are, by definition, those who should not have them. And the factory owner didn't seem to care.

Jim

 

[jimmy]

Speaking of shipping, my Beretta .380 was stolen from UPS on the way back from the Accokeek service department a couple of years ago. The shipping manager at Beretta told me that during the previous two months about twenty Berettas had been stolen the same way. No one said it was an inside job by a UPS employee, but the possibility was evident. The package was opened and the gun was extracted, then the package was resealed and sent on its way.

So, now I wonder how many criminals get their guns through thefts from UPS every year.

 

[Kodiac]

Never.
Never!
NEVER!

Ship UPS.

EVER.

------------------
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE

 

[Covert Mission]

Project Exile. Use a gun... go to jail for a long F-ing time. Now.

Same with straw men.

Stolen guns: why, with all the tax subsidies, tax exemptions, wasted tax dollars, and wailing and gnashing of teeth, don't these legislators put our money where their mouths are: everyone gets a tax deduction for buying a gun safe. one time purchase. subsidized. a real incentive to get people to lock up their guns. what's a life worth? no more bs. a CA legislator has introduced a bill to do just that, and it's gone nowhere.

 

[fubsy]

I sold a glock 45acp the large frame one to a local store and the guy that bought it had the store ship it to his new address in new mexico, ups delievered it to an appt in the projects of that town-----the people that received the pistol, didnt say anything and it took about a month to figure out were the pistol was delievered, the pistol was recovered. The address given and the address receving the pistol were similar and the ups guy just messed up.......fubsy.

 

[TEX]

I have a co-worker who is FFL dealer. Several years ago he ordered about half a dozen SKSs from a wholeseller and they were shipped UPS. After about two weeks he called the wholeseller wondering were his SKSs were. They said they shipped them over a week previous, so he calls UPS to see where they were. Because he wasn't home at the time, they had left them behind some bushes by his front door. Sure enough, he went outside and dug through the bushes and there they were. Any kid in the area could have picked them up. NEVER ship UPS.

 

[Coinneach]

I just had a gun delivered via UPS (to my dealer, that is, not to me). Everything that was supposed to be in the package was in the package.

Not saying UPS isn't to blame in the incidents noted above, of course. They've "lost" more stuff than I care to remember.

Suggestion: don't tell them what's in the box. They have no need to know.

------------------
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.

 

[Danger Dave]

Tex, I can do your friend's story one better..

A friend of mine was a class III dealer. One day, he came home from work and there was a package from UPS on his porch, for everyone who drove by to see. It was his full-auto M14, back from the gunsmith...

 

[Destructo6]

Wasn't it about a year or so ago that a major LEO's SWAT-equipped (painted black) Suburban was stolen while they (the LEO's) were eating at a restruant? MP-5's, M-16's, and all manner of other class3 nasties came in the deal. I guess they've never heard of a, "gear guard," or they were too arrogant to believe that it could happen to them.

------------------
I offer neither pay nor quarters nor provisions; I offer hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country in his heart, and not his lips only, follow me.
-Giuseppe Garabaldi

 

[Mike Spight]

Destructo6: Yep...it happened in June of 98 in Memphis, TN. I was in town visiting relatives and it was big news, to say the least.

Apparently there was a big SWAT/SRT conference and training seminar going on. IIRC, this vehicle and its contents belonged to the Feds, but I could be wrong. I left town a couple of days later...don't know if all was recovered or not. Bottom line, they left all their ammo and weapons in the vehicle in the motel parking lot. The motel was near the CBD of Memphis, not exactly the most crime free city in the mid-south anyway.

I hope someone lost their job over that one.

Mike