Assault Weapon, why I embrace that term...

Skans

Active member
Some folks on this forum question why I, an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment and gun-owner's rights, use the term "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle" when talking about semi-automatic guns. I wanted to explain my reasoning a little deeper here. I do this because I recognize the trap the knowledgeable Antis are setting for us.

We should all be familiar with Saul Alinsky's 12 Rules for Radicals. The Antis have studied them and religiously use them in their fight against gun ownership. Here are a couple that I think come into play when the Antis brand phrases on guns, and as a result gun owners:

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

When we shy away from terms like Assault Rifle, trying to disown it as if the term could bury our cause, we embolden the Anti's weapon of ridicule. I am well aware of the origin of the terms "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle". This history is boring and irrelevant to most people who have never even fired a gun. This is their trap!

RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.


The Antis want us, gun-owners advocates, to fear the terms Assault Rifle and Assault Weapon. This allows them to equate this fear with their twisted depictions of harm they want people to think flows naturally from certain kinds of firearms.

RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.

The Antis' goal - the elimination of all guns. Their Solution? Eliminate categories of weapons one at a time. Their solution to mass murder is the elimination of Assault Weapons. Once they have been eliminated, they will quickly forget the "compromise" and move on to eliminating handguns by labeling them something like "Personal Executors" (remember Saturday Night Specials); and labeling shotguns something like "Lead-Sprayers".

So, when I use the term Assault Weapon or Assault Rifle here or on other forums, I do it with the knowledge that the Antis want me to fear using this term. Obviously using terms the Antis want me to fear using is not going to defeat them. We have to think bigger than that; beyond arguing semantics and definitions. That's a matter for a different discussion. But, when I embrace using Assault Rifle to describe an AR type rifle, I move the discussion to what I want to discuss and not get entrapped arguing about definitions and origins of terms. The term loses its punch.
 

jtmckinney

New member
Skans,

I am not going to disagree with you but I think I run in different circles where nobody uses the terms "Assault Rifle" or Assault Weapon". If we are talking about an AR or AK we call them by that term or whatever term fits. The only time I ever hear those terms is in the media. We are not disturbed by those terms they just don't fit so we don't use them.

When I Googled "Saul Alinsky's 12 Rules for Radicals" first choice was on Glen Becks website. I had to smile when I read rule #2 below. I am not sure how much expertise is used by the people who do use those terms.

* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
 

iraiam

New member
I'm with you, for the most part.

One thing I'll take a small issue with is the "Antis' goal is the elimination of all guns". I don't see it this way, they go out of their way to craft legislation that restricts or disarms the public, but they specifically exempt virtually all civilian government agencies that have armed personnel. These agencies are not the military, but made up of civilians who are charged with implementing the will of the civilian government.

In this respect, I consider the Antis' to be very much pro-gun, but only as long as it's only the civilian government that has them.

I am absolutely convinced their final goal is for the people to be armed with shovels and pitchforks, while they who wield power have "Assault Weapons" and all the military grade hardware they can lay their hands on.

The old saying I think sums it up best is: Those who hammer their weapons into plowshares, will plow the earth for those who did not.
 
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2ndsojourn

New member
Skans,

I see your point. But IMHO, The biggest 'weapon' the anti's have is the Straw Man Argument. They make up a lie, then attack the lie. They need to be called out on it. Loudly and repeatedly.

An AR is not an assault rifle. To call it one is a lie.

The perceived 'gun problem' isn't gun violence, any more than automobile deaths are car violence. Gun violence is another lie.

The gun show loophole is another lie.

The Charleston loophole is another lie.

I could go on...

And I agree with jt on Rule #2.
 
Skans said:
Some folks on this forum question why I, an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment and gun-owner's rights, use the term "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle" when talking about semi-automatic guns. I wanted to explain my reasoning a little deeper here. I do this because I recognize the trap the knowledgeable Antis are setting for us.
First, the two terms are not synonymous, and are not interchangeable. "Assault rifle" is a legitimate term -- and it describes a military-grade long arm that has full-auto or select-fire capability. An AR-15, an M4gery, or a semi-auto-only AK-47 type rifle is not an "assault rifle."

"Assault weapon," on the other hand, is a term that was created by the anti-gun activists to "describe" (a.k.a. "label") any gun they find scary and vaguely, somewhat, sort of military-ish in general appearance. It isn't a legitimate term, because it doesn't describe any particular type of firearm. In some states (including mine), a semi-auto handgun with a magazine capacity greater than 10 rounds is now an "assault weapon." The same firearm with a 10-round magazine is not. How can that be a valid descriptor of a firearm type (to anyone other than a lawyer)?

At the same time, I also eschew the made-up term "modern sporting rifle." It's obvious this is a term created by the pro-2A side to try to counteract the anti-gun "assault weapon" nomenclature. To me it comes across as exactly that -- an artificial term created for political purposes. I don't talk guns with people who aren't into guns so I have no idea if the MSR term is even a little bit effective in countercating the AW term ... but I doubt it.
 

DaleA

New member
Thanks to those who continually and CONSISTENTLY tell us what an 'assault rifle' and an 'assault weapon' are.

I hope you don't get tired of doing this. I think it is an important point as it fits into the 'rule #5 ridicule' listed. I DO ridicule the anti folk for trying to make laws about stuff they have no information or mis-information about.

I've often thought an analogy would be to let me (personally) be in charge of aircraft safety design. I could tell Boing how to build their airliners. When asked what I know about aircraft safety I would shrilly scream "Well I know they shouldn't CRASH!!!" Does anybody think this would be a good idea? Does anybody think this is similar to what we see in the anti-gun folk?
 

dakota.potts

New member
I don't tend to use the words "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" because they're typically wrong and I'm a pedantic person.

However, I don't like the idea of dancing around what a firearm is either. My .308 semi automatic I call a "battle rifle", something that I can see ending up on the news as a soundbite. My VZ2008 is a military-style rifle, if anybody asks (also a police style rifle), it just lacks the third position lever which most don't use anyways. My AR15 does have 30 round magazines and a military surplus rear sight. My CZ75 is a police model and my P-01 is NATO approved and used as both a police and military handgun. My carry ammo (Federal HST) is marked for 'law enforcement use only' because I buy it by 50 round boxes online where possible for the low cost.

All of these things are what they are. I have a right to bear arms. Not hunting equipment. Not sporting tools. Arms. So, yes, if I own a battle rifle or a police handgun, that's my right. Doesn't bother me to be up front about that.
 

Skans

Active member
The perceived 'gun problem' isn't gun violence, any more than automobile deaths are car violence. Gun violence is another lie.

The gun show loophole is another lie.

I completely agree with these two statements. The terms are made up lies. However, with these things, there is no getting bogged down in the mechanics of what a particular firearm is or isn't.

I had to look up the "Charleston Loophole", as I hadn't heard of it before, but I'd agree there too. These things need to be attacked for the lies they are.

The reason I focus on the terms Assault Weapon, Assault Rifle is because I firmly believe that I have a right to own weapons that would enable me to partake in an assault, should that ever be necessary. My weapons are not merely for hunting. They are not simply for self defense. We have a right to own firearms that are meant for battle, military grade weapons. I don't want to retract from that position, or be deflected off of that position with discussions of what is and is not a sporting purpose.

The '86 machine gun ban severely curtailed our right to own what the military has access to In essence, it gave the Antis the ability to claim that we are not entitled to modern military grade firearms. In my opinion this cuts more to the heart of the matter.
 

44 AMP

Staff
I am well aware of the origin of the terms "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle". This history is boring and irrelevant to most people who have never even fired a gun. This is their trap!


As one of the few who don't find the history boring and irrelevant, it always bugs me to see terms being used incorrectly.

However, I do see your point. "for most people", and tis not just a "trap", it is the primary tactic used. Or, perhaps, more correctly, their tactics are designed to take maximum advantage of the situation.

This is the reason we have gun control laws at all. They define, and restrict us based on technical descriptions that they put into law, that most people don't know, or care about.

Consider it one of the basic, inescapable flaws of democracy, the fact that people with NO direct, personal stake in the matter (any subject) get the same vote about it as people who DO have a direct, personal stake in the issue.

Our Founders did what they could to create a government that did its best to minimize the worst aspects of this, by creating a democratic REPUBLIC, having voting requirements, and relying on the integrity of the people.

In the two centuries plus since then, much of these things have been dismantled, in practice, if not in the actual letter of the law. And it has happened because we have a democracy.

"Every terrible weapon of the soldier" is the birthright of the American citizen. We believe that, as did the Founders.

The other side simply doesn't believe that.
 

NYC guy in GA

New member
Ill play along. If we're going to talk slang, I like " bustin caps, glock 9, full clip in my gat"

On the other hand I never use those terms, so I can't call things what there not. If they use slang, let them. It's not a term of endearment it's just INCORRECT & scare tactics!

So I will not call them assault anything, it's just an AR (armalite).

Don't bring yourself down to their level.
 
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Koda94

New member
Skans said:
When we shy away from terms like Assault Rifle, trying to disown it as if the term could bury our cause, we embolden the Anti's weapon of ridicule. I am well aware of the origin of the terms "Assault Weapon" and "Assault Rifle". This history is boring and irrelevant to most people who have never even fired a gun. This is their trap!

and it stuck. When I talk to antis an assault rifle is an assault rifle they do not care that it is not select fire or full auto and because thats the only real difference its really a weak argument to bring up.

Reality is the "MSR" is a defensive weapon just like my bolt action hunting rifle is based on the same military design when they used bolt actions. Just like my lever action deer rifle is a military rifle when they used those too, just like revolvers....

Thats how I explain "assault rifles" to any anti, the reality is they are completely unaware just how effective and deadly a "hunting rifle" is and once you explain that to them it makes it easier to understand that technology isnt the problem here. It helps that a lot of "antis" are hunters....


I don't use the term "assault rifle" myself, but it stuck and I cant reverse that the name is here to stay. Shying away from that word is like saying AR15's are not deadly. They are...
 
Koda94 said:
I don't use the term "assault rifle" myself, but it stuck and I cant reverse that the name is here to stay. Shying away from that word is like saying AR15's are not deadly. They are...
But "assault rifle" is a legitimate term. It doesn't, however, apply to the AR-15, or to semi-automatic versions of the AK-47. The artificial, manufactured term is "assault weapon," which is basically defined as "Whatever the anti-gun people want to ban today."

I know several people in Connecticut who owned post-ban configuration AR-15s that were completely legal for many years. Then, in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook school shooting, all those formerly-legal post-ban AR-15s suddenly became "assault weapons." Nothing about the firearms changed, only some words in the statute.
 

Koda94

New member
But "assault rifle" is a legitimate term.
I get what your saying, thats what I mean by sayin the term stuck...

It might depend on the level of "anti" one is talking to.... At the far end its exactly what they want, they cant fully prohibit them without distinguishing them from "hunting arms" because they know that will never work politically. Im not against making their definition more confusing to them though since they invented it.

To an anti thats more middle ground trying to argue over the term is a weak point they dont care if its full auto or not they are not suddenly going to feel better about it because they are semi auto only. Teaching them that the violence problem will still be there even if they fully prohibit "assault" guns is the way to go
 
Koda94 said:
I get what your saying, thats what I mean by sayin the term stuck...
No, you don't get what I'm saying. "The term "assault rifle" did not "stick," it is a legitimate term used by the military to describe select-fire or full-auto rifles of intermediate calibers.

The made-up term is the "assault weapon" that the anti-gun forces toss around as if it had a definition when, if fact, its definition changes with the wind, temperature, and phase of the moon.

The two terms are not synonymous, nor are they interchangeable. Assault rifle =/= assault weapon.
 

Koda94

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
No, you don't get what I'm saying. "The term "assault rifle" did not "stick," it is a legitimate term used by the military to describe select-fire or full-auto rifles of intermediate calibers.

The made-up term is the "assault weapon" that the anti-gun forces toss around as if it had a definition when, if fact, its definition changes with the wind, temperature, and phase of the moon.

The two terms are not synonymous, nor are they interchangeable. Assault rifle =/= assault weapon.

I know what an assault rifle is.

I said "weapon" because they want your "high-cap" handguns too...

it doesn't matter to non gun owners and or the antis what they are called, and I think thats the point of the subject.
 
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