assault rifles, high powered rifles?

yakfish

New member
I have been wondering just what is the definition of an assault rifle? and what consititutes a high powered rifle.

I was listening to the radio last night and there was a story from california were 4 cops were killed in the line of duty (very sad story and I feel terrible for their families). this story was being used to show how we need more gun control saying that high powered assault rifles should be banned. the question was asked where in the world could this guy have gotten this high powered weapon? as I was listening I was thinking to myself that I can walk into any gun store here in ohio and purchase an ar-15 whenever I want to. but is an ar-15 considered an assualt rifle? and just what is high power? is high power any center fired round? if so will politicians try to ban my lever action 30-30 since it is high powered?

so what is an assault rifle?

these are just some things that popped into my head last night.
 

Nikop23

New member
He had an AK when he shot the second 2 officers. But the fact is it would not have mattered if he had a 22 since he hit both of them in the head. They are making a big deal about it because it was an AK. If it had been a a 38 special it still would have had cries for gun control, but being an "evil AK" politicians, and anti gun groups are going to make a big deal out of it when pushing the assault weapons ban. But what they dont mention is that Assault weapons are banned under California law, showing that assault weapons bans do not work. I feel bad that 4 officers died. But its not the guns fault. And it certainly isnt the type of guns fault.
 

yakfish

New member
If I remember correctly the shooter had been previously convicted of crimes using firearms and had been rescently released. this goes to show how well our justice system works and the nutjobs out there running it. this guy needs to be given a life sentence if not the death penalty. what will it take for these idiots in government to see that gun control is not the answer?:mad::mad::confused:
 

carguychris

New member
I have been wondering just what is the definition of an assault rifle?
Without going into legal mumbo-jumbo or political debate, IMHO the most generalized definition is a semi-automatic rifle that fires a centerfire cartridge, and is designed to accept readily interchangeable and easily detachable magazines that may hold more than 10 rounds.

The definition is sometimes extended to fixed-magazine rifles such as the SKS and FN Model 1949.

I discount the whole "high-powered" vs. "intermediate-powered" cartridge debate, because IMHO it's meaningless as it relates to the definition bandied around in popular society. Only gun enthusiasts care about cartridge power; trying to explain it to a layman will just make his eyes glaze over. :rolleyes:
They are making a big deal about it because it was an AK. If it had been a a 38 special it still would have had cries for gun control, but being an "evil AK" politicians, and anti gun groups are going to make a big deal out of it when pushing the assault weapons ban.
+1, although these folks need to remember that the AWB was extended by state law in CA, and look how much good it did in keeping a Kalashnikov-style rifle out of the hands of a convicted felon... :rolleyes:
 

Rich Miranda

New member
...what is the definition of an assault rifle? and what consititutes a high powered rifle.

These terms are bandied about in the media carelessly, interchangeably and meaninglessly.

The media usually calls an assault rifle anything that doesn't have double barrels and images of doves engraved on the sides. :barf:

As for "high-powered", I have seen a shotgun referred to as high-powered. What constitutes a high-powered shotgun? An 8-gauge? :D

When it comes to guns, the media is sensationalistic, hence the misuse of the terms.
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Assault rifles in common parlance are military derivative guns. They are descendants of a weapon designed for the infantry.

The gun world gets all excited about semi-auto vs. full, full powered vs. the seemingly more limited (308 vs a 7.62 x 39, etc.)

I hate to say this but the uninitiated don't care one bit about what the gun world things. The military derivative gun is seen as an EBR - evil black rifle.

When the term is used in a media report and the reporter gets some e-mail that a rampage killer used a semi auto EBR so it's not an 'assault rifle' - that's spitting in the wind and probably has little impact on the debate.

The argument is that correct definitions are important but knowning what I know about priming effects - the misuse of terms by the media isn't going to go anywhere productive.

You are not going to diminish the EBR effect by spouting definitions.

BTW - I should have said, that it is correct to point out that a weapon is not fully auto when it is seen in an incident. That's the important distinction to let folks know that you just can't buy fully auto guns. The media screws that up.

On the other, RKBA advocates want to buy such - so that's another double edged sword from our debates.


Flame me - that's my take on the issue in the gun world and a large literature on emotional priming.
 

44capnball

New member
as I was listening I was thinking to myself that I can walk into any gun store here in ohio and purchase an ar-15 whenever I want to

Perhaps, but you could also walk on to any street corner in any town anywhere in the USA and buy illegal drugs.

If you know the right person, I'd imagine you can get rocket launchers and grenades, too. The Mexican cartels have plenty of them.

Not once have I seen the media decrying this, because it doesn't serve their all-too-obvious agenda.

Way I understand it, an assault rifle is select-fire. An AR-15 is not truly an assault rifle by the traditional definition.

Obviously, "assault" is a favorite word in the media. Words like that give them power to bypass critical thought. From what I can see, it works pretty well.
 

Chris_B

New member
An "assault rifle" is whatever somebody wants it to be. My M1 Garand has been described as an "assault rifle"

"Assault rifle" is a term that many people want to mean "Military or military type weapon used for violent purposes"

Criminal types will always have firearms at their disposal. It's already illegal to commit crimes, and that doesn't stop them...so what's the point of making more gun laws? Political agendas, that's what, and guns are easy to blame because the media has gotten everyone terrified
 

Waitone

New member
Similar events in the past would feature breathless articles blaming the violence on "assault weapons" which is a a term created by the elves of Brady. Now our journalists are using an existing term wrongly. IIRC an assault rifle will feature select fire including full automatic. Unless I'm missing something an SKS don't do that.

Bottom line is we are witnessing the vilification of another term.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Actual definitions vs media definitions, and translation in to English

As Glenn has said, most people don't care, and won't be changing their minds, even if one explains the difference in terms, and how to correctly use them.

Back in the tail end of WWII (1944) the Germans fielded a new class of firearm. It fired a round less powerful than their standard rifle, yet more powerful than a pistol. It fired in both semi-automatic and full automatic. When Adolf Hitler approved the weapon, he christened it the "Sturmgewehr".

Sturmgewehr translates into English as "assault rifle" or "storm rifle" The words assault and storm are mean in the military sense, that of assaulting, or storming, an objective. NOT in the civilian sense of one person assaulting another.

The media (and most people) don't care about the difference. They only see the English word assault, and assume it refers to one person assaulting another, as in the legal definition of criminal assault. They say "any gun used to assault someone is an assault rifle", or some such twaddle. Technically, in English, they are correct, BUT they have altered the meaning of the term completely.

The term "assault rifle" has been in use by the military and shooting community for over half a century, the guns being defined by their ability to fire selectively (both full auto and semi) at the flip of a switch, and the power level of the ammunition they used.

Back in the late 1980s, the anti gun people started a campaign to confuse the issue, willingly aided and abetted by the press. They began by calling semi auto guns that looked like military guns assault rifles. When shooters pointed out that they were using incorrect and improper terms, the started calling the same guns "semi automatic assault rifles". This proved to be too much of a mouthful to make a good sound bite, so the media eventually dropped the "semi automatic" part.

THEN, to further advance their agenda, they came up with the term "assault weapon", a term they completely made up, which included semi auto rifles, pistols, and shotguns with features they dis-approved of, such as pistol grips, detatchable magazines, flash suppressors, bayonst lugs, barrel shrouds, folding stocks, etc. By 1994, they had gotten Congress ( and several states) to actually make this defintion legal and put into law.

Under US law, actual assault rifles are legally machine guns, and have been regulated as such, since 1934. Since 1994, semi-auto guns with certain cosmetic features have been legally classed as "assault weapons".

And, since people tend to be sloppy and imprecise in their language, and since dictionaries (especially on line ones) reflect the definition of words as found in "popular usage", dictionary "definitions" of what is an assault rifle are seldom correct in the legal and technical sense. The field of firearms terminology, as defined in law, is arbitrary, confusing, often ambigious, and sometimes seems to contradict basic common sense. The terms used by the media are even more imprecisely applied.

As to what constitutes a "high power" cartridge, again, the media has a different definition than the shooting community. They tend to refer to everything larger than a .22 rimfire as a "high powered" round.

When the .30-30 winchester came out, over 100 years ago, it was considered a high velocity, high power round. It became, and still remains the most popular deer rifle round in the US. But by todays standards, it is not a "high power" round. The 7.62x39mm round used by the AK and SKS series of rifles is balistically very slightly below the energy of the .30-30 Winchester. It is not considered by shooters to be a high powered round.
The 5.56mm (.223 Remington) round used by the M16 and AR 15 series of rifles is also not considered a high powered round. It is a varmint cartridge, and not legal for deer hunting in the majority of the US, because it is not "powerful" enough to meet many state Game Depts requirements. But the US military considers it enough to shoot enemy soldiers with.

The media plays fast and loose with terminology, firearms, and otherwise, because they are in the business of selling news. Precise accurate reporting does not sell as much as sensational sound bites and catch phrases. And the majority of politicians and police officials quoted by the media don't have any better education in proper firearms terminology than the press does.

If you are looking for the truth, you will seldom find it in the media, the politicans, or Wickipedia.

Hope this helps answer your questions.
 

exercion

New member
Unfortunately, there are two answers to the question on Assault Rifles. The actual definition is a rifle that is capable of selective fire (full or semi-auto), is magazine fed, and is chambered for an intermediate round (smaller than full power rounds like the 30-06, 7.62x54R, etc.)

If pressed, I'd likely draw a line between low power at energy levels below the standard .223 round, intermediate up to just below a .308, and high power anything .308 and above, but that's just my take on it.

The US Media/Democrat Party (trying to be less redundant here by putting them together) definition is different: "Assault Rifle" "High Powered Rifle" are interchangeable terms for "item we must ban now". Any weapon used in a crime (or that can be used in a crime: see CA ban on the 50BMG rifles) is considered an assault rifle or high powered rifle if by doing so one can call for more bans. These weapons have "no legitimate civilian use" i.e. you can commit murder with one, but can not defend yourself or family with one; you can do drive-by shootings with one, but obviously because it has a little lug for a bayonet there is no way one could use it for target competition, etc. So they should be banned of course.
 

carguychris

New member
When the term is used in a media report and the reporter gets some e-mail that a rampage killer used a semi auto EBR so it's not an 'assault rifle' - that's spitting in the wind and probably has little impact on the debate... You are not going to diminish the EBR effect by spouting definitions.
+1. I like to compare this to another debate that has been beaten absolutely to death... the meaning of the term "sports car".

I'm somewhat of a car enthusiast (hence the username). ;) To me, a Mustang or Camaro is not a sports car. It's a "pony car"- a small sedan with a big engine, built out of mainstream sedan parts (until the recent advent of front wheel drive, anyway). However, many non-enthusiasts consider these cars "sports cars" because they're fast and they look cool. It looks like one, so therefore it must be one.

The opinions of myself and fellow enthusiasts will never change this perception, and IMHO it's important to realize that attempts to "correct" the general public's "misleading" definition usually amount to talking in circles amongst ourselves while they tune us out.
BTW - I should have said, that it is correct to point out that a weapon is not fully auto when it is seen in an incident. That's the important distinction to let folks know that you just can't buy fully auto guns. The media screws that up.
This is why I like to use the terms "Kalashnikov-style" or "AR-type" rifle. The media likes to use the terms "AK-47" and "M-16", which IMHO are loaded terms, no pun intended. ;) The general public needs to understand that, although these rifles look like the ones the military uses, they are not the same thing, because the civilian ones are semi-automatic.

IMHO it's easier and more honest to convince people that not all assault rifles are evil than to try and tell them that an AR or Kalashnikov isn't an assault rifle.
 

Mr Odd Six

Moderator
I have been wondering just what is the definition of an assault rifle?

Back before the liberal media redefined the bad black rifles.

The DOD (Dept of Defense) had classified every firearm ever.

The ONLY Assult rifle EVER made was the 1947-1961 AK-47

The reason is that it's selector switch from back of front was AUTO-SEMI-SAFE.

Now a days its everyones job to redifine firearms to what ever side of the fence they are on.

But what is the real pity is the DOD has stopped using firearms classifications.

It seems they ran into heat from the Klintons when they were in charge.
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
It's really a critical issue. Excuse me if this isn't the clearest.

1. We have semi guns that are descendents of full auto guns.
2. Someone goes nuts with one or commits a crime
3. The media says it is an assault rifle and full auto (sometimes)
4. We say it isn't an assault rifle as it isn't fully auto, aren't you silly Media. We also imply the gun isn't that dangerous because it isn't an 'asault rifle'.
5. However, it just did something bad, so it is dangerous.
6. So an anti would say - so what, it isn't an techy 'assault' rifle but it still is extremely dangerous so ban them. That's why we see bills specifically going after the semi military looking guns. The research on the AWB clearly demonstrated that the ban just focused on cosmetics, so if you are anti - ban more and more.
7. How do you make the point that owning the semi EBRs is OK?
8. Then some RKBA advocates want open access to fully auto guns.

This is a mess and our clarity has to be focused on not trying to minimize the potential of the semi EBR but why ownership is constitutional (beyond just sloganeering) and beneficial (as compared to the downside).

This implies that all rights have limits based on cost-benefits - as we have discussed before.
 

Csspecs

New member
The focus should shift from pointing out features or cosmetics to just pointing out how well the war on drugs is going..

Ban guns and they will be coming over the border for just the criminal element. Only they will be coming over as full auto and RPGs like what mexico is seeing.

A semi auto rifle in the hands of a mad man is like a dull knife in the hands of a chef, it's not what he wants and he could do better with something else but he will make it work because its what he has in his hands. Ban the less effective semi and the mad man will come up with something else much more effective.

Examples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombings_in_Iraq_since_2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unabomber
 

BigDog454

New member
Look up the definition on Google!

If you get assaulted by someone with a rifle, that will be an assault rifle, by someones definition.
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
That's the truth - IIRC - the TSRA wants support for a bill to stop employers from banning keeping a gun in your car in the parking lot. Then, they get crap from folks who say unless you support full auto or open carry - they won't help. Let's stamp our feet.
 
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