Ashley Outdoors Big Dot Sights
- Thread starter Sackett
- Start date
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
I have used them and think they are the best sights for a combat handgun. I intend to add them to all mine. Very fast and with the 12 o’clock aiming point you see more of the target.
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
The point of aim / point of impact should be the top of the large front sight dot. (i.e. 12 o’clock on the front sight).
If you are trying to use the center of the front sight for point of aim it is no wonder you’re your accuracy has suffered as it covers way too much of the target. You can’t hit what you can’t see!
As was explained to me the top center of the dot is the Point Of Aim. Used as such I am far more effective with combat shooting then with your normal iron three dot style sight.
If you are trying to use the center of the front sight for point of aim it is no wonder you’re your accuracy has suffered as it covers way too much of the target. You can’t hit what you can’t see!
As was explained to me the top center of the dot is the Point Of Aim. Used as such I am far more effective with combat shooting then with your normal iron three dot style sight.
Attachments
I heard that at 25 yds. the Point Of Impact should be 2" higher than the Point Of Aim. Reason being is that any range inside of the 25 yds. all you will need to do is put the front sight on the target and it will be a hit. Also in a defensive situation you will want to see the target you are aiming at. Everyone who has seen the Big Dot Ashley's know that they are truly BIG and will cover your sight picture.
Also remember that these are Defense Sights and while one can target shoot with them they are not Target Sights. They are quick on target easy to see BG ventilating Combat Sights.
Also remember that these are Defense Sights and while one can target shoot with them they are not Target Sights. They are quick on target easy to see BG ventilating Combat Sights.
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
My first experience with this type of sight was this past Thanksgiving and the sight picture was explained to me by Rich Lucibella. I was shooting his Less Bear 1911. Using them, as explained, I managed better performance then I normally experience with my 1911. All the while, acquiring the sight picture seemed much less effort then usual. Since then I have had two other opportunities to shoot a similarly equipped pistol with equal or better results. Now I’m no guru and my ability is only average but those sights make a noticeable difference to me. As soon as my budget allows I’ll be installing them on all my serious carry pieces.
Thanks for the reply Scott. The concept seems sound to me. For what I do with my pistol, IDPA/IPSC they seem like the way to go. I am usually just using my front sight kind of like a shotgun bead; putting the front sight where I want to hit and not really worrying about the rear. Like I said, so far, I am not doing so good, but I think it is a matter of practice and getting used to the sights. I haven't had the chance to put much time into it although I did fire one match and did better overall than I usually do. I wasn't shooting as well, but I was shooting faster. On paper, I shoot very well with them. Even though the front sight is extremly large, I am able to shoot nice groups on paper, but at speed I am tending to shoot low. I notice that if I can see the entire dot, I am OK but it seems like I always start with the muzzle lower than I need. After trying the sights on paper, I shot a couple mags at a spray paint can lying a little over 50 yards away and noticed that if I put the can right on top of my front dot, I hit it more times than not. Now, I need to work to get the same results at close range, at speed.
By the way, these sights aren't legal for the class I shoot in IPSC, but I just shoot local matches and I doubt anyone will really care. At least until I start doing a lot better than I am now.
By the way, these sights aren't legal for the class I shoot in IPSC, but I just shoot local matches and I doubt anyone will really care. At least until I start doing a lot better than I am now.
More than once on this board I have asked a question or made a comment and it was taken the wrong way, so let me explain why I ask these questions.
We all know that a set of fixed sights will hit point of aim with a given load at a given range. Since we sometimes deviate in either range or load someone invented adjustable sights. I have to assume that when someone designs a set of fixed sights that they decide on a given load at a given range and arrive at a height for the front and rear sight that enables the average user to hit the target using that load at that range. So, when buying a new gun with fixed sights or when adding a set of fixed sights to a gun, what exactly is this load and range the sights were designed for ? I was considering these sights for my Ruger P89. It came from the factory with fixed sights. Unfortunately, with me behind the trigger, these sights shoot low at 25 yards when using 115 and 124 grain 9mm bullets. I found that 147 grain bullets shoot right on the money. I shot many thousands of 147 grain bullets through the gun, but was never happy about it. First of all 147s are not readily available. You probably won't find 147s at your local WalMart. My local dealer only stocks cast bullets in 147 because I buy them. He orders a few thousand, I buy them, then he never orders more until I need them leaving me high and dry until the order comes in . 147s also recoil more than the lighter bullets. Now the recoil of a handgun in 9mm Luger is pretty much insignificant; but, if you compete with it, every little edge counts. The slightly less recoil allows a quicker recovery which just might move me up a place or two in the standings at the end of a match. So, I called Ashley and asked them at what range and with what bullet are these sights regulated for ? I basically got the run around, never recieving a good answer; I was told basically, don't worry about it. Thus my question, who told you where these sights hit ? I thought maybe you got some information out of Ashley that I didn't.
Since fixed sights only hit point of aim with one load at one range I was also curious about the statement that these sights are "supposed" to hit just above the dot. Again, "supposed" to hit with what load and at what range ? I found that my Ashley sights shoot slightly lower than you describe with 9mm 124 grain bullets. In fact, you cover the intended point of impact with that big ball. I went out today and tried it just to confirm this. If I take a 25 yard bullseye target, move back 25 yards and hold the round dot so it is in the center of the bull (so the dot and the outer scoring ring appear to be concentric circles) I will shoot a nice tight group centered on the 10 ring. I would actually prefer this to it shooting just above the dot.
Obviously load, range, eyesight, ambient light etc. will all play a role.
We all know that a set of fixed sights will hit point of aim with a given load at a given range. Since we sometimes deviate in either range or load someone invented adjustable sights. I have to assume that when someone designs a set of fixed sights that they decide on a given load at a given range and arrive at a height for the front and rear sight that enables the average user to hit the target using that load at that range. So, when buying a new gun with fixed sights or when adding a set of fixed sights to a gun, what exactly is this load and range the sights were designed for ? I was considering these sights for my Ruger P89. It came from the factory with fixed sights. Unfortunately, with me behind the trigger, these sights shoot low at 25 yards when using 115 and 124 grain 9mm bullets. I found that 147 grain bullets shoot right on the money. I shot many thousands of 147 grain bullets through the gun, but was never happy about it. First of all 147s are not readily available. You probably won't find 147s at your local WalMart. My local dealer only stocks cast bullets in 147 because I buy them. He orders a few thousand, I buy them, then he never orders more until I need them leaving me high and dry until the order comes in . 147s also recoil more than the lighter bullets. Now the recoil of a handgun in 9mm Luger is pretty much insignificant; but, if you compete with it, every little edge counts. The slightly less recoil allows a quicker recovery which just might move me up a place or two in the standings at the end of a match. So, I called Ashley and asked them at what range and with what bullet are these sights regulated for ? I basically got the run around, never recieving a good answer; I was told basically, don't worry about it. Thus my question, who told you where these sights hit ? I thought maybe you got some information out of Ashley that I didn't.
Since fixed sights only hit point of aim with one load at one range I was also curious about the statement that these sights are "supposed" to hit just above the dot. Again, "supposed" to hit with what load and at what range ? I found that my Ashley sights shoot slightly lower than you describe with 9mm 124 grain bullets. In fact, you cover the intended point of impact with that big ball. I went out today and tried it just to confirm this. If I take a 25 yard bullseye target, move back 25 yards and hold the round dot so it is in the center of the bull (so the dot and the outer scoring ring appear to be concentric circles) I will shoot a nice tight group centered on the 10 ring. I would actually prefer this to it shooting just above the dot.
Obviously load, range, eyesight, ambient light etc. will all play a role.
foureyes_45
New member
Just talk to AO today..I have a Wilson CQB. and with Bi-Focals..Its hard to see the front sight in dim light.. They said to get the Big Dot. So I have a set on the way..
Mike in VA
New member
I've got the Big Dot (tritrium) on a Kimber Ultra Carry and I really like them. They're very fast to acquire - just put the front sight on the target, line it up in the vee and squeeze. Bear in mind that they are COMBAT sights, not target sights
In all honesty, it took a little practive to get used to (i.e. about an hour and a box & a half of hardball), but my accuracy out to 25' is just fine (POI=POA at that distance), I can hold a group under 4" pretty consistently. For a CQB pistol, that works for me.
I've always thought the Ultra Carry was quite accurate for such a short snort, and the Ashleys haven't hurt a bit. YMMV, but try 'em, you'll like 'em
In all honesty, it took a little practive to get used to (i.e. about an hour and a box & a half of hardball), but my accuracy out to 25' is just fine (POI=POA at that distance), I can hold a group under 4" pretty consistently. For a CQB pistol, that works for me.
I've always thought the Ultra Carry was quite accurate for such a short snort, and the Ashleys haven't hurt a bit. YMMV, but try 'em, you'll like 'em
I went with Ashely because of failing night vision. Now I can see that big dot, but there is a trade off.
No more head shots. If I am for the head, it'll hit the hairline and sometimes higher. I have to aim for the neck to hit the head now and under a stressful condition, would be better off shooting for center mass of the body. So much for failure drill and I'm working at adapting for headshots. New mantra: Aim low, aim low, aim low...
No more head shots. If I am for the head, it'll hit the hairline and sometimes higher. I have to aim for the neck to hit the head now and under a stressful condition, would be better off shooting for center mass of the body. So much for failure drill and I'm working at adapting for headshots. New mantra: Aim low, aim low, aim low...
Erick,
I believe you will find that Ashley sells different hights of REAR sights. The fronts are all the same. Principle you describe still applies.
As to the question about where this idea of their point of impact comes from, it come from Ashley Outdoors. In their literature they say the point of impact under about 15 yards is under the front sight. As my wife describes it when shooting her Glock 27, "Put the front sight on the bad guy's chest and make him go away!" At 25 yards they say the point of impact should be at 12 o'clock, i.e. at the top of the front sight. This is a general rule of thumb, based on standard models and the standard load for that caliber. As an example it is closer to correct with 230g 45 ACP rounds than with 185g loads.
444,
If you contact Ashley, I'd bet they would be willing to exchange your rear sight for a higher one (as long as the one you have is in good shape). They have been very nice when I contacted them. Had a tritium front go dim after only a year and they replaced it free of charge.
For others interested, they offer a test rear sight made of plastic. You slip it into the rear dovetail and shoot from the bench (rest), breaking off little pieces until you get your point of impact where you want it. Then send it to them and they will match the rear to that hight.
One other way to go is get the Ashely BD front and an MMC Tactical Adjustable rear sight with their new "Express" rear blade. Gives you the Ashley system with an adjustable rear so you can "sight in"!
I believe you will find that Ashley sells different hights of REAR sights. The fronts are all the same. Principle you describe still applies.
As to the question about where this idea of their point of impact comes from, it come from Ashley Outdoors. In their literature they say the point of impact under about 15 yards is under the front sight. As my wife describes it when shooting her Glock 27, "Put the front sight on the bad guy's chest and make him go away!" At 25 yards they say the point of impact should be at 12 o'clock, i.e. at the top of the front sight. This is a general rule of thumb, based on standard models and the standard load for that caliber. As an example it is closer to correct with 230g 45 ACP rounds than with 185g loads.
444,
If you contact Ashley, I'd bet they would be willing to exchange your rear sight for a higher one (as long as the one you have is in good shape). They have been very nice when I contacted them. Had a tritium front go dim after only a year and they replaced it free of charge.
For others interested, they offer a test rear sight made of plastic. You slip it into the rear dovetail and shoot from the bench (rest), breaking off little pieces until you get your point of impact where you want it. Then send it to them and they will match the rear to that hight.
One other way to go is get the Ashely BD front and an MMC Tactical Adjustable rear sight with their new "Express" rear blade. Gives you the Ashley system with an adjustable rear so you can "sight in"!
Dave, I have no issue with the POI from my sights. They seem to work just like you described. At close range they seem to hit what the sight is covering. At longer ranges it hits just above the front sight. My only problem is shooting at speed. I seem to want to shoot low. If I am taking my time shooting a group on paper, no problem. When taking a quit sight picture and firing, I hit low. I am sure that the sights will be fine. I just need to get used to them. My shooting interests vary by the day. There is nothing about shooting that doesn't interest me and right now my IDPA/IPSC pursuits are taking a backseat to other things and I haven't taken the time I need to get used to them.
I have a Big Dot on my Kel Tec 9mm, and really like it (figuring any SD shot I'd be taking with this pistol wouldn't be long range). I also have one on my H&K .40C, and am not so crazy about it. The rear post is so short it's almost invisible.
BTW, seeing that you live in Dallas, you may just want to drive to Ft Worth and leave your pistol. I did that, and picked mine up by the end of the day. geegee
BTW, seeing that you live in Dallas, you may just want to drive to Ft Worth and leave your pistol. I did that, and picked mine up by the end of the day. geegee