Artillery Shell Info/help needed!

blume357

New member
A friend gave me this the other day... When he first handed it to me I went 'hlly cow' (well sort of) then he said don't worry and took it back and pulled the casing off to show there was no 'powder' in it and was thus 'safe'... the next two things I noticed were that the primer has not been fired and that there was a funny looking tip on the end of the 'bullet'... primer doesn't worry me as much as the tip... can anyone help identiy this critter as well as tell me if there is something inside the round that I need to worry about?

RR.jpg
 

rhgunguy

Moderator
Don't have AEODPS handy...but from the hole in the tip it looks like it has been inerted. I would ask your local bomb squad to check it out just in case.
 

Number 6

Moderator
"Hole?"

"Don't have AEODPS handy...but from the hole in the tip it looks like it has been inerted."

Did I miss something - what "hole?" I see a sharp "V" notch which could be for a fuse wrench; nothing which indicates the projectile itself has been deactivated.

I wouldn't drop it! :eek:
 

blume357

New member
You are right

I should have taken a better picture of the tip. That's a notch with a corrisponding one on the other side of the lead tip. Looks like it unscrews but I'm not sure I want to try it with the age of this thing. One point, the guy that gave it to me says he played with it forever as a boy.. 30-40 years ago...
 
blume-
I'm no expert on these things, but you posted it publicly, so I'm gonna give you my best advice. Find out immediately whether that item is legal for ownership and, if not, take all necessary steps to properly report it. The fact that the shell is primered has me concerned.

Can anyone tell us if this is an NFA item or such?
Rich
 

Powderman

New member
It looks to be a small cannon/grenade type shell or munition. As Rich mentioned, the fact that the primer is present has me worried.

Thus, you would do well to follow these steps:

1. Handle with extreme care. Do not handle roughly, drop or strike the projectile or primer.

2. Call your local Police Department immediately. Explain the situation to them.

3. Let their EOD personnel come over and figure it out from there.

It is entirely possible that you have a live munition. If so, from the size of the round--and the possibility of fuzing--it will almost certainly maim or possibly kill anyone with a close radius upon detonation. Most assuredly nothing to play with.

Edited to add: Just noticed your location. Your friend hasn't been playing around in the impact areas around Ft. Jackson, has he?
 
Good advice already posted. Have it checked out ASAP by the police or Army EOD.

Don't move it or handle it until you do.

Go to the Darwin Awards website to see how many idiots have removed themselves from the gene pool by playing with old explosive devices that they believed were harmless. :eek:

Old doesn't mean safe. In the mid-80's a civil war mortar shell blew the track off a bulldozer excavating on an old battlefield.
 

Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
I am only familiar with Naval munitions from and prior to Viet Nam, but the bulge on the base of the projectile appears to be a base-detonating fuse. These were to ensure detonation upon impact in the event of a mechanical time fuse or point detonation fuse failure.

It's presence strongly suggests the possibility that the HE charge still remains. It also appears old, possibly WWII vintage? Some of the older explosives used back then can become unstable over time.

I agree with the others. Notify EOD and absolute kid glove treatment and isolation until they can retrieve it.
 
It's very tough to read the base, but it looks somewhat similar to a shell for a 37mm "Trench Gun," a light piece of infantry artillery in use around WW I.

These came with solid, high explosive, and shrapnel shells, IIRC. This certainly looks like a high explosive variation to me.

Here's a picture of one...

37trench.jpg
 

44 AMP

Staff
Important!

ALL ARTILLERY SHELLS 20MM and larger CAN CONTAIN EXPLOSIVE!

If you have not yet contacted the Police /EOD, do so at once. CAREFULLY remove the projectile from your house, and place it in an open area as far from people/buildings as possible. Do Not drop, bump or jar it. it doesn't matter if your buddy played with it as a kid, unless an expert certifies it as inert, it is to be considerd DEADLY DANGEROUS!!!!!

Keep the casing. It is harmless.

Be aware, that artillery shells can contain other things besides explosives. "DUD" rounds are NEVER SAFE. They have been known to go off from impacts, or for no apparent reason, years, and even decades later. They have been known to survive numerous impacts, even go through fires without going off, and then later detonate. World War I shells might contain poison gas! (along with a bursting charge)

In 1977, while stationed in Germany, some soldiers found a "dud" artillery shell. They took it back to the barracks, and as it was Saturday night, drank some beers. The shell got knocked off a table in their second floor room. The Duty NCO heard the noise, and when he found out what happened, called EOD and evacuated the barracks. The next morning, the entire company got several hours of training on "unexploded ordnance". After which, they witnessed the detonation of the shell. It was a WW II German White Phosphorus round, and was quite impressive. If it had gone off in the barracks, it wouold have destroyed one wing of the two story concrete building, and set fire to the rest.

The shell in your picture appears to have an intact fuse. This indicates the STRONG possibility of an explosive charge. I vas unable to make out the markings on the base of the case from your picture, could you post them please, also any markings on the projectile portion.

Measure the diameter of the case mouth (please don't mess with the projectile). The size in inches/mm and any markings will help aid in identifying the round. There are literally hundreds of different rounds it could be, so anything you can tell us will help.

If Explosive Ordnance Disposal identifies it for you, please post and let us know. If it is actually inert, you have an interesting paperweight.

If I sound like a nervous nellie about this old thing that has been kicking around for decades, it is because I have some small experience with these things. If it is inert, call me any name you want, but until you are ABSOLUTELY SURE, don't take the risk! If you can, get in touch with military EOD, they may be able to ID it. Chances are the local police bomb squad won't. They will likely just take it to a safe location and detonate it with explosives. To be "sure".

Upon closer examination of your pictures, the shell does not appear to be very large, and I think I can see the number 37 on it. If it is a 37mm shell (case mouth measurement - approximate) then it may contain explosive, or phosphorus, but is highly unlikely to have poison gas (if it is the right age for that) WW I gas shells were larger, usually 105mm or larger. The gas (as a liquid) was contained in glass spheres inside the projectile, along with a bursting charge.

It may also contain nothing at all, but best to be safe, and sure.
Good Luck.

Don't lose any sleep over it, just put it where it won't hurt anyone if the impossible happens, contact the authorities, and follow their instructions. I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for something like this, even in those rare instances where they have turned out to be live. Usually they turn out to be inert, but don't take chances.

Hope I haven't scared you too badly, but until you know for certain, this is no joking matter.
 
"ALL ARTILLERY SHELLS 20MM and larger CAN CONTAIN EXPLOSIVE!"

Not just artillery shells.

Small arms ammunition, as well.

Some years ago I was digging around in a box of loose cartridges trying to fill in some gaps in my collection when I came up with an odd 7.7mm Japanese cartridge.

It finally dawned on me that it was explosive, with a load of a few grams of PETN.

The owner didn't realize it, and seemed to be pretty concerned when I pointed it out to him.
 

blume357

New member
It seems most of yous guys think

as I do that there is an explosive charge in the end of this thing. I hadn't thought of the government getting involved and still don't think I'll dial 911 and have the bomb squad along with probably several police cars and firetrucks show up....

My wife called the city (non 911) last year about a gas smell outside our house and in two minutes 30+ city employees in various uniforms were out in front of our house.

I think what I'll do is get permission from the guy that gave it to me to dispose of it. Method of disposal? 200ft deep lake nearby should work fine. Let the Army Corps of Engineers deal with it......
 
try and fuse it with waterproof fuse and THEN dump it:D Just kidding, wouldnt want to be shuned from the forum-however-it would be VERY entertaining
Chase
 

Leif

New member
blume357, I hope that your "method of disposal" was in jest, and if it was, please ignore this post. I'm not trying to flame you, nor pass myself off as somebody who knows much about explosives, but if you have any reason to believe that this item is live, you need to contact somebody to dispose of it properly. While a lake of 200 ft. depth probably will 'take care of the problem' for quite some time to come, do you really want to take that risk?

I live in Delaware, and every year it seems some bit of live ordinance is dredged up from the Delaware Bay and unwittingly deposited in somebody's driveway along with the crushed oyster shells. This material was deposited there courtesy of the government, usually although not always by the coastal artillery emplacements that used to line the seacoast here. There even was an instance of a mustard gas shell found in somebody's driveway, which when handled by munitions people at Dover AFB, released its contents and injured them. This stuff doesn't go away, even underwater.

Do you plan to transport this item to the lake in your car? You take an incredible risk in doing that, not only jeopardizing yourself, but everybody else on the highway in close proximity. You've been given good advice: don't take the risk and call somebody for proper disposal!
 

Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
I think what I'll do is get permission from the guy that gave it to me to dispose of it. Method of disposal? 200ft deep lake nearby should work fine. Let the Army Corps of Engineers deal with it......
Ditto what Leif said. "The only thing predictable about explosives is that they're not always predictable", and that is a direct quote from an acquaintance in EOD.

I realize you're thinking, "Hogwash, I've fiddled around with and dropped this thing a dozen times. Nothing's going to happen and these guys are way overreacting." Perhaps. Perhaps not. Are you willing to risk your life & maybe your family's as well over the "perhaps not"? There's a lot at stake here if you're wrong, and those stakes are worth more than a few sirens, flashing lights, and men in funny suits. Think about it ;) .
 
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