Arrested for Web Surfing???

[Dave P]

Man Surfing Bomb Web Sites Arrested In Florida
Police Find Suspicous Liquids In Man's Backpack
Posted: 7:15 a.m. EDT July 30, 2002

PUNTA GORDA, Fla. -- Police evacuated a public library and arrested a British man using a computer to look at bomb-making web sites after officials said they found suspicious liquids in his backpack.
Nigel B. Gates, 45, of London, was charged Monday with obstructing justice.

He was being held Tuesday at Charlotte County Jail on immigration violations, as ordered by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Gates' visa expired 11 years ago and he gave a false name during questioning, according to jail records.

Gates told police the liquids were paint thinner and jewelry cleaner that he used to clean cars, said Punta Gorda police spokesman Lt. Jason Ciaschini.

Authorities said the chemicals did not appear to be hazardous, but they are still being identified.

Investigators seized the hard drive Gates had worked used as evidence, Ciaschini said.

Ciaschini said it is not a crime to look at bomb-making web sites and it is unlikely Ciaschini will face any other charges.

"Looking up stuff on the Internet, everybody has freedom to do that,'' he said.

???????????????????????????????

It will be interesting to see how this guy was "caught". Was this the new Patriot laws that let the feds snoop at the library?

 

[Ben Swenson]

It will be interesting to see how this guy was "caught". Was this the new Patriot laws that let the feds snoop at the library?

I find it vastly more likely that it was just a passerby who saw something that was 'scary' and reported him.

 

[Libertarian]

This stinks of "Thought Police". So what if he was surfing for bomb making directions? If those sites are so dangerous, the police should use the applicable laws and shut them down. What? There is no law against it? Oh.

The visa violation is a good collar though. All illegal aliens should be rounded up and deported or jailed.

 

[Azrael256]

The visa violation isn't a good collar. Don't get me wrong, I think he should be booted out, but the arrest for looking at bomb making webpages is no good, and as such the subsequent investigation was illegal, but then nobody pays attention to that "illegal seizure" thing, so who cares!

I also love the "suspicious liquid" crap. I walked into a body shop yesterday and saw a bottle of acetone, a tube of MEKP, some SERIOUS paint stripper, and probably about a million other horribly toxic and potentially explosive chemicals sitting around. Do people just refuse to believe that potentially hazardous chemicals are usually NOT manufactured for nefarious purposes?

 

[tyme]

What exactly does suspicious liquid look like?

 

[Bahadur]

Nigel B. Gates, 45, of London, was charged Monday with obstructing justice.

He was being held Tuesday at Charlotte County Jail on immigration violations, as ordered by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

So he was noticed and searched because he looked at a "bomb-making website," arrested because of a "suspicious looking liquid," held on "immigration violation" and charged with "obstructing justice."

An interesting line of connection between the initial activitiy that attracted attention and what he was finally charged with, not to mention what he will be finally convicted on, if any.

Bahadur

 

[jimpeel]

Tyme

What exactly does suspicious liquid look like?

I looked in my toilet and saw a liquid that looked suspiciously like pee. Got rid of it before it panicked anyone, though.

 

[buzz_knox]

The combination of the site and the materials was enough for probable cause/reasonable suspicion to stop him and inquire as to his activities. That would have led to the discovery of his illegal status. Even if it did, he would still be deported as being in the country illegally is essentially a strict liability violation. It doesn't matter how you're found to be an illegal, it just matters that you are.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Just as hokey as the story, the name of this thread is wrong. He was not arrested for surfing, although the selections of sites he surfed apparently got the attention of those around him who thought it necessary to call the cops.

Interesting parody here. Many in the public were outraged that terrorists went to flight school here in the US and used their training to crash planes. It was suggested that such folks taking flying lessons should have been a giant red flag to indicate something was going on. That being said, going to flight school is nothing illegal and yet after the fact we are outraged that law enforcement didn't stop those guys before they crashed the planes.

 

[DMK]

How did they know what was in his bag? I didn't see anything about a warrant to search it.

 

[Dave P]

Buzz, I can't agree with "It doesn't matter how you're found to be an illegal, it just matters that you are."

It seems reasonable that a snoop (TIPS?) could have called the cops on this guy, based on his web searches. But then it could have easily led to a fishing excursion by the cops. "Do you mind if we look in your bag, you know, for stolen library books?"


Change the words around: It doesn't matter how you're found to be doing something illegal, it just matters that you are. I know I do illegal things (we all do), and I do care very much on how I would be caught! Thats called due process / Constitutional rights / etc!

 

[Coronach]

The combination of the site and the materials was enough for probable cause/reasonable suspicion to stop him and inquire as to his activities. That would have led to the discovery of his illegal status. Even if it did, he would still be deported as being in the country illegally is essentially a strict liability violation. It doesn't matter how you're found to be an illegal, it just matters that you are.

Ding! Although in more pedestrian contacts with illegal immigrants, it would result in the INS doing absolutely nothing. You are correct his completely legal activities drew the attention of The Man, and The Man discovered that he was in the country illegally. Good guys win.

Just as hokey as the story, the name of this thread is wrong. He was not arrested for surfing, although the selections of sites he surfed apparently got the attention of those around him who thought it necessary to call the cops.

Exactly. If this had happened to any TFL member who was in this country legally, he would be released. Moral of the Story: Don't Do Stuff When You're An Illegal Immigrant. Or, better yet, Don't Be an Illegal Immigrant.

Interesting parody here. Many in the public were outraged that terrorists went to flight school here in the US and used their training to crash planes. It was suggested that such folks taking flying lessons should have been a giant red flag to indicate something was going on. That being said, going to flight school is nothing illegal and yet after the fact we are outraged that law enforcement didn't stop those guys before they crashed the planes.

You, sir, are obviously a liberal statist sheeple who loves government intrusion and you should be banned from TFL right now for polluting our bandwidth with this logical and sensible point.

Dave P:

Buzz, I can't agree with "It doesn't matter how you're found to be an illegal, it just matters that you are."

It seems reasonable that a snoop (TIPS?) could have called the cops on this guy, based on his web searches.

Or, more likely, someone flagged down a librarian.

But then it could have easily led to a fishing excursion by the cops. "Do you mind if we look in your bag, you know, for stolen library books?"

So?

Change the words around: It doesn't matter how you're found to be doing something illegal, it just matters that you are. I know I do illegal things (we all do), and I do care very much on how I would be caught! Thats called due process / Constitutional rights / etc!

How was the constitution violated by this situation, either the real one or your hypothetical one? I'm confused.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

Missed This:

How did they know what was in his bag? I didn't see anything about a warrant to search it.

Possibly a consent search. Possibly plain view (if the bag was open). Both are exceptions to the warrant requirement.

Mike

 

[Bahadur]

I have no problem that the illegal alien will be going home.

I would be MUCH more alarmed had this happend to a legal US citizen/resident. I wonder if that step will be crossed...

Bahadur

 

[M1911]

He's here illegally? Best thing to happen would be that he would be shipped to the UK on the next flight, and allowed to appeal his deportation from there. Won't happen, unfortunately, due to various court decisions...

M1911

 

[HankL]

Gates' visa expired 11 years ago

:barf:

 

[Coronach]

How was the constitution violated by this situation, either the real one or your hypothetical one? I'm confused.

Still confused...

Mike

 

[Dave P]

Illegal search ?

Illegal search and seizure is the issue. Based on his web habits, there was No reason for searching ; no reason for checking his immigration status.

Am I glad he was caught as an illegal? Damn right! My concern is how he was exposed.

Now -if- the snoopy librarian had also seen paint thinner in his backpack, and -if- he was foreign looking and -if- agreed to a search --- then I can't bitch.

But what if it was me, purusing TFL, looking at pictures of guns, reading about terroists and bombs (on any news site), and the snoopy librarian also sees a 45 stuck in my belt? Is that a good reason to call the cops and be detained/searched? The right answer is No!

Does that answer your question, Mike?

 

[Dave P]

4th Amendment - FYI

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I imagine the key issue here is "unreasonable searches".

 

[Bahadur]

Dave P:

Now -if- the snoopy librarian had also seen paint thinner in his backpack, and -if- he was foreign looking and -if- agreed to a search --- then I can't bitch (emphasis mine).

Can you define "foreign looking" for me?

Bahadur